My Level

[diddlse1]

Hi Everyone.  This is my first post!

So I'm trying to distinguish which level I play at and was hoping for some help from you    I figured if I'm going through a little bit my repertoire at moment this might be the best form to post in (if not I apologise).  The reason why I'm asking is becaause I seem to have hit a brick wall with a lot of stuff and I want to take a more structured approach to my practicing to further advance my repertoire and eventually try and make a career with the piano.  I have a great passion forclassical music and piano music.

I'm currently 21 and have played since I was 4 years old.  I am self taught using books, etc and have never received any formal tuition from anyone, however, here goes.

F. Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 C# Minor.  I can play the Lassan what I believe to be perfectly well, however, I struggle on many parts of the Friska.   I can play (at tempo) the start through to tempo guisto up until the stringendo con stretto octaves and then I get lost.  I skip this part and usually head for the finale prestissimo which I can play at tempo until the end.  I like to think of this peice as a landmark to all my hardowrk over the years!

Mozart Piano Concerto No. 5 (All 3 Movements) and No. 21 First and Second movements.  Most of the Sonata's, with the later ones being a bit of a challenge.

I play several of Chopin's Waltz's (Minute Waltz D Flat and C# Minor waltz (Op64) and B Minor (Posthume) Waltz.  I have also attempted some nocturnes with success and I'm currently learning Ballade in G Minor (Allegro Con Fuoco being the confusing part for me but I'm hoping to get there in the end).  I havn't even thought about getting a headache and doing some of the etudes.

So far my practice methods have been apart from the usual through the 24 keys in 4 scales in appergio's, scales, etc...  Hanon - Virtuoso Pianist Vol 1 2 & 3, Czerny's Etudes (School of Velocity, Art of Finger Dexterity and 30 New Studies in Technics), and some Heller Etudes.

Criticism and Advice would be greatly appreciated!

[jcabraham]

Look, I can't advise you on your piano playing, but I can tell you that people will take you more seriously if you write English correctly. The plural of things is usually formed by adding "s" -- NO APOSTROPHE.

So: sonatas, not "sonata's". Concertos, not "concerto's". Waltzes, not "Waltz's". Arpeggios, not "arpeggio's"

The apostrophe is generally used to form possessives: "Beethoven's Fifth Piano Concerto". It is also used to form contractions: "this sonata's killing me."

Best of Luck!

[stevebob]

I think that most amateurs recognize whether they're at the stage of beginner, intermediate or advanced based on what they can play proficiently.  Those categories are admittedly broad and not clearly delineated, but more specific classifications by numbered level (e.g., Grade 1 through Grade 8+, Level 1 through Level 10, etc.) are largely arbitrary—and not very meaningful except in curricula determined by various national music boards in countries that have such organizations.

You mention some compositions you've worked on with varying degrees of success, but it's not possible to know how well you play them or how long you spent learning them.  Those criteria are more important than the pieces themselves; without that knowledge, one can only guess at your proficiency.

As you're entirely self-taught and seem unaware of difficulty levels in piano repertoire, I'm curious what has guided your decisions about how to approach your musical practice.  How have you been deciding what to learn?  Have you been taking into account whether your choices are appropriately challenging and/or whether they're likely to improve your skills?

There are lots of books available about piano technique and piano repertoire, so I recommend you avail yourself of such resources if you're determined to remain self-taught.  There's no single approach or one-size-fits-all solution or proven path to success, but gleaning all the information you can from what's available would be a logical first step toward the "more structured approach" you're seeking.

[diddlse1]

Thank you for the English Lesson jcabraham, however, I can assure you it is not needed.  I tend to double check my punctuation and spellings on more formal documents.  I shall take more care next time!   

Stevebob - Sorry I should have mentioned this in the first post.  It depends on the difficulty of the piece how long it takes me to learn.  I managed what I can play of 'Hungarian Rhapsody No.2' in 2 months, however, that being said I managed Mozarts Piano Concerto No.21 'Andante' with a days practice and the first movement within a few weeks.  My sightreading is neither good - nor bad!  I can do work to a Grade 8 Standard (ABRSM) syllabus.  Although I can play a lot of the pieces from the lists, there are still some I find quite challenging.

I seem to do well on building up a technique with many of Czernys etudes and I like to use Chopins Fantasie Impromptu for practising my polyrhythms.  I like to try and practice at least 2-3 hours per day and I would like to remain self taught.  Not sure wether I would be a lot further on now if I had attended lessons but I like to think I've got this far on my own, I can manage the rest!

Thank you for your advice and I will certainliy be researching more into different techniques.

[ponken]

I am also an amateur and I consider myself to be at an advaced level. I am 20 years old now and have played since I was 10. I could play the hungarian to a poor standard but I would not say that I master it. I can't give you any adviced since I am at a lower level than you but I want to wish you good luck and hope you will go far.

[liordavid]

I think that you are a level 7 or 8. something in between. i think there are defenitelyy some beethoven sonatas that you could play. probably the first and the opus 10 no,s 1 and 2. opus 14 no 1 you could probably do. wait a bit for opus 14 no 2

[diddlse1]

Good luck with your studies Ponken and thank you for your wishes!  I'm sure you will go just as far with practice!  

Ahh the Beethoven sonatas.  The ones you mentioned I can play at a reasonable level, in fact, I have never found many of his the earlier sonatas a challenge - although I must admit, I lack a little on the musicality on some of them.  I have the complete set of sonatas edited by G.  Buonamici, published by Augener & Co in 1903.  I've been playing around with No 23, Op 57 'Appassionata'  and 'Waldstein' No. 21, Op 53 with succesful results on some parts.  The only sonata I think I can do perfect on expressiona and musicality, is the Moonlight Sonata, Op 27 No.2.  

Alas, I think that I'll stick with the sonatas for a while and see what results I can produce.

On another topic, would it be worth confronting my fears starting to look at a few of Chopins Etudes?

[stevebob]

On another topic, would it be worth confronting my fears starting to look at a few of Chopins Etudes?

Yes, most definitely.

[diddlse1]

Yes, most definitely.

OK... I'll a box of Nurofen on top of the piano (Just Incase) LOL... Any recomendations where to start?  I've read many posts saying it's better to pick out etudes rather than start from the first and work through them!

[ponken]

Good luck with your studies Ponken and thank you for your wishes!  I'm sure you will go just as far with practice!  

Ahh the Beethoven sonatas.  The ones you mentioned I can play at a reasonable level, in fact, I have never found many of his the earlier sonatas a challenge - although I must admit, I lack a little on the musicality on some of them.  I have the complete set of sonatas edited by G.  Buonamici, published by Augener & Co in 1903.  I've been playing around with No 23, Op 57 'Appassionata'  and 'Waldstein' No. 21, Op 53 with succesful results on some parts.  The only sonata I think I can do perfect on expressiona and musicality, is the Moonlight Sonata, Op 27 No.2.  

Alas, I think that I'll stick with the sonatas for a while and see what results I can produce.

On another topic, would it be worth confronting my fears starting to look at a few of Chopins Etudes?

Thank you! I believe you could start looking at a few of Chopin's etudes. They are very hard but you can definitely start looking at them and see how it goes.

[stevebob]

Any recomendations where to start?  I've read many posts saying it's better to pick out etudes rather than start from the first and work through them!

They're definitely not ordered by progressive difficulty, and there's no clear-cut path, strategy or sequence in which they should be approached that's universally applicable.  Opinions differ significantly about which ones are the most or the least difficult; it's safe to say that even where technical challenge is relatively modest, the interpretive demands will still be significant.

I recommend familiarizing yourself with all of them by listening to recordings and reading along with the score, and making a choice based on musical appeal and technical demands that you think will be manageable for you.  Keep in mind that the fast-tempo etudes needn't be played at the speed of professional performances in order to be both beneficial and gratifying.

Approach learning them as you would any other piece of music; in particular, a foundation of good fingering choices is vitally important.  And though they don't build upon each other's technical requirements or specific pianistic skills in a way that would dictate the order of learning them, I do think that they get easier as one proceeds studying them nonetheless:  technique in general is elevated, intimidation is lessened, confidence is raised.  Though "Winter Wind" would be an exceedingly difficult choice for one's first etude, for example, it will be found far less so down the road.

So get your feet wet!  Once you get past the imaginary barrier that Chopin's etudes are something so forbidding (or forbidden, which you can't or mustn't or shouldn't do), they will likely become linchpins of your practice to which you will return time and again over the years.  You will want to learn more and more.  And each time in the future you renew your acquaintance with one of them, you'll bring something new to it—and get something further out of it as well.

[pianisten1989]

Record Post some of your piece's yez? Zhen I tel you leve, ohkey?

Sorry, jcabraham, couldn't help it. I almost fell of my chair when I read it. Have you heard martha argerich speak english? If you can't take with minor english problems seriously, then you should probably check that...

[m2r]

To start the Friska in Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody is challenging, but you should not worry too much about what level you play at because there will be pieces in higher grade levels that you can play simply and others that you cannot.  Just continue playing what you are comfortable with.

I woul say you are around grades 8 through 10.