Yamaha 'Too bright'I have

[jono1]

I recently bought a reconditioned Yamaha U2.  This is a beautiful instrument with a very bright tone.
The problem is that I play a lot of Chopin and find that the tone is not mellow enough.  Does anyone know of a way in which I can tone it down.  I live in an old stone house with stone floors, and I have put rugs under the piano but its not enough.  Any tips would be appreciated!
Thanks.

[mistermoe]

I think that's a common problem. An easy way to soften the piano is by putting plenty of your sheet music/books on the top of your piano. It makes a huge difference in sound. And it's easier to swap your chopin etudes for the waltz as u don't have to get up from the piano 

Of course the other solution is to get a piano technician and letting him manipulate the piano   
But in that case u have to be sure he really knows what he's doing!
And as u mentioned that it's a beautiful instrument, i would advise against it. And perhaps one day u start discouvering other composers and will appreciate a brighter sounding piano. (that's what happened to me)

[jono1]

Many thanks mistermoe.  That does make a difference!  I have also tried some felt insulation on the wall behind the piano and thats made as difference also.

[mistermoe]

i'm glad i could help 
see u around!

[biscuitroxy12]

A piano tuner and technician can do that for you. I had the same issue with my Yamaha 5'7 2008 Disklavier so I had my technician/tuner adjust it. The yamaha was almost annoyingly bright and now it has a mellow sound to it and a nice Romantic style feeling.

[keys60]

Have the hammers voiced by a technician. They use a voicing tool with pins on it and pin the "shoulders" of each hammer. The felt compacts over the years and voicing softens the felt up. Also, they will fill down the grooves and reshape the hammers with sandpaper file. The grooves on the hammers pick up metallic residue from surface corrosion and give the piano a bright metallic ping when the strike. Ask the tech to do a few hammers first. You can pick the sound you are looking for. It is a little costly, but SO well worth it. Really, its an overlooked maintenance that should be performed every few years depending on how much the piano is used and its environment.

[keys60]

One more thing... I would advice NOT loading all your books and sheet music on top of the piano unless you really don't care about your finish. The sound reduction is minimal and you will still have a bright piano.

[love_that_tune]

One time an ex boyfriend of mine who played everything loud ( is it a surprise I married and then divorced him?)  but I digress.  So the the neighbors would stop complaining and banging on the walls when he played, he stuffed insulation into the back of the piano.

[silverwoodpianos]

Some folks are making the mistake here of thinking that volume is the same as piano tone. Voicing a hammer set with a proper voicing tool with needles allows the hammer to remain on the string a split second longer, or shorter. This will produce percussive tone or softer tone.

Placing blankets over the top or insulation in the back of an upright has to do with the muting the volume produced by the instrument.

 One has nothing to do with the other.

[mistermoe]

Some folks are making the mistake here of thinking that volume is the same as piano tone. Voicing a hammer set with a proper voicing tool with needles allows the hammer to remain on the string a split second longer, or shorter. This will produce percussive tone or softer tone.

Well, i know very well that volume is not the same as piano tone. I was even talking about the possibility of getting a technician to regulate it. I just didn't go in detail, cause i'm a pianist and i don't have enough knowledge to talk about that stuff.
And there is no need to call me folks. I have a name you can read just on the left of my posts.

Placing blankets over the top or insulation in the back of an upright has to do with the muting the volume produced by the instrument.

 One has nothing to do with the other.

I'm no physicist, but i think that one has definatly something to do with the other.
If you walk past a room in which somebody is playing the piano you will hear less volume, but it will also sound less bright than inside the room.
If you use ear protection you have the same effect, less volume but also less brightness. Thats why you dont have lot of musicians in orchestra using them, because it changes not only the volume but also the sound itself.

And now let me give you a little hint for your future life:
If somebody tells somebody else, that putting books on the piano makes a difference in sound, the other person tries and finds that "that does make a difference", there's a chance that it does indeed make a difference.

[silverwoodpianos]

Placing blankets or books or insulation on or inside and instrument will not change the tone. You will have more or less of the same tone.This is because nothing has been done to change the tone.
 
A piano is a fixed -tone instrument. This means that the manufacturer sets the tonal quality.

 There is very little one can do to change the tone. When you voice the instrument’s hammer set you have the goal in mind to make the unpleasant sounds disappear while bringing the satisfactory sounds forward to be more prominent.

The unpleasant sounds still remain; they have just been masked by the voicer for a period of time.

People can place books or whatever they please on their instrument. If one has a desire to believe that this changes the tone, they can take that view if they would like to. The desire to hear something different could convince some that change has occurred.

[mistermoe]

In each of my posts i was talking about the sound coming out of the piano, not the tone the piano is producing inside. I just wanted to share my experience. That's all.

I really would have found it interesting talking about the possibilities and ways of changing the piano tone by technicians, but:

The desire to hear something different could convince some that change has occurred.

You say i am just imagining a difference in sound?! I'm not sure if you realize, but that's really insulting and disrespectful!
I have no need to talk to and argue with persons like you over the internet, sorry. I do have better things to do.

[fnkyazn]

I should acknowledge that Yamaha sprays their hammers to stiffens them, thus making the brighter sound.  In general (with the exception of their higher-end, premium models), Yamaha likes to tailor their pianos to brighter tones simply because that's what the "average" piano consumer likes (they're trying to meet a quota here, not please the average concert pianist).

If I were you, like others recommended, I would have a technician mellow out the tone a bit.  This will cause the volume of the piano to go down varying levels, depending on how mellow you want it.  However, if you're okay with this, then I'd say this is your best solution.  On another note, I should stress that simply sticking a needle into the hammers will not do you any good, and you should not attempt to this by yourself.

Good luck with whatever you decide! 

Fnkyazn

[tosca1]

A Yamaha U1 piano is a very nice instrument. Even If your piano were reconditioned, it may still have the original hammers. Over time and use, hammers harden and as the striking point of the hammer flattens, the tone becomes too bright and harsh.  I would consult and engage a good piano technician to "voice" your piano. You will be amazed at the improvement that skilled "voicing" can achieve.
In your situation, stone floors and walls will exacerbate the problem and for that reason I would suggest resolving the problem at its cause rather than muffling the sound of your beautiful piano with books and sound insulation.
However, good "voicing" is a highly specialised skill and it is important to find a suitably qualified person for the job.

All the best!

Robert.

[keys60]

*siiiigh........I don't see taking advice from a technician as being rude or impolite. As you stated, you are a musician and don't like to talk about such technical things.
Sure, if you want to kill the volume and yea, maybe a blanket and stuff all over your piano may filter out some of the high overtones, and it makes a difference to you, its your choice. But technicians do participate here and the voicing advice has been offered to you for free. A simple thank you would suffice.

[mistermoe]

As you stated, you are a musician and don't like to talk about such technical things.

Nope, i said something completely different:

and i don't have enough knowledge to talk about that stuff.

and later i even said:

I really would have found it interesting talking about the possibilities and ways of changing the piano tone by technicians

Don't misquote me please.



And i have NO problem taking advice from somebody else.
It is just the way he was talking i found disrespectful. That's all.

Sure, if you want to kill the volume and yea, maybe a blanket and stuff all over your piano may filter out some of the high overtones

Yes, that's what i was saying... 

and it makes a difference to you, its your choice

That's exactly what made me angry before. It has nothing to do with choice, it's what i hear. And for me it's enough that i can say that it makes a difference.

But technicians do participate here

I seriously think that's great!  (no sarcasm)

and the voicing advice has been offered to you for free. A simple thank you would suffice.

I know that voicing is a possibility. I was even the first on this thread to give the advice of consulting a piano technician.  I just showed some skepticism based on personal experience (probably due to bad technicians)

[silverwoodpianos]

 Not to worry much about it Keys60, it is not possible to legislate good behaviour. These are emails which tend to be kind of flat; unless the reader injects their own emotional content into them.

When that happens, there is no point in continuing for me; I am only here to provide technical information for the OP, not provocation for contributing members of this thread.

I have only been restoring musical instruments for 38+ years but apparently there are members here wouldn’t want to read anything I have to state.

The OP will have to discuss the instrument with a technician of their choice regarding knocking down the percussive tone of the instrument. The Yamaha product tends towards percussive tone to begin with.

[etap1]

To Keys60 and Dan Silverwood,

As a concert technician with 34 years experience, I would suggest to the forum that both these people have made correct and proper points.

Tone and volume are separate things.............

Furthermore, voicing a piano properly is much more than sticking needles into hammers OR conversely applying 'hardener'. 

Yamaha actually uses a 'hot' press to make the hammers thereby creating a 'harder' hammer to cater to modern piano 'tastes'.  Actually, many of 'us' in the industry recognize it is easier to develop 'tone' for the layperson with a minimum of work starting with a harder hammer. The down side is that it quickly becomes an ongoing voicing issue throughout the life of the 'well played' piano.  (Much like painting brick...........once you paint, you are forever obligated to repaint)

I was trained both in US and in Europe and old-style German voicing is more concerned with working quite deeply inside the hammer to balance out compression and YES, it CAN last a goodly long while if done properly.  Furthermore, touchup voicing is restores the tone back to the original sound if hammers are not too flat.

Voicing in this way is not the pervue of the average technician as most tend to concentrate on surface crown voicing in general.  Remember, ALL voicing is founded upon the proper preparation of hammers, fitting to strings (hitting all 3 at same time), leveling strings therefore and reasonable action regulation.

Those technicians on this site who speak freely and offer their advice should be valued by the musicians as generally you might find yourself paying for such knowledge.

Furthermore, there is NO room for rudeness of any sort on the internet.

That, my friends, might be a contributing factor to war and hatred amongst people.

Music is about sharing human decency, sensitivity and expression!

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Evan Tublitz, RPT
www.usedpianocenter.com

[keys60]

etap. Thank you for your input. I do know that there is so much more to voicing than just needles and hardener. That was really just a brief reply to someone who should really seek the services of a qualified technician as yourself. Me? I'm really a beginner who's getting some work on the side of another career. More of a paid hobbyist who did a three year apprenticeship. I'm gradually getting more work. So...I really appreciate the in depth explanations from experienced master like yourself and Mr. Black and Silverwood. Although I'm getting work without any complaints from my clients, I have yet to take the RPT exams and wouldn't scam a customer if I felt a job was beyond my capabilities. I'd definitely refer them to one of the master with your kind of experience that I know.
Hope you guys don't mind if I pick your brains once it a while. Help the kid out. ; )