What I learned about Teaching/Education Today :

[m19834]

Education is probably my deepest passion, and one which seems to have a bottomless pit in terms of the aspects of an individual's life to be affected.  Education, like people, comes in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, yet I believe there is a fundamental vitality about each individual and humanity in general being educated.  I believe education is the very progress of our world.

In the spirit of education, with the desire to become more educated myself and to become a better teacher for my dear students, I have decided to start this thread as a form of awareness.  An idea that struck me this morning as I was sorting and straightening my thoughts and motives for the day, is with regard to an interesting attitude and accompanying belief-system that has a kind of presence in the music world.

Generally, it seems that teaching is looked down upon.  There are a number of aspects to that, but what I want to post about in this thread today is fairly specific.  What I am currently struck by is how the 'importance' of a teacher to the student is portrayed.  I observe that one of the "tricks of the trade" by teachers, whether teacher by trade or teacher as a side, is to "puff" oneself up as important, since s/he has much better things in life to be doing than teaching (this or that student, or in general).  It is a trick of the trade to give the air of the student being lucky to glean a crumb from the all-important table of knowledge that this teacher sits at.  I, in fact, believe that the teacher's time and knowledge indeed should be respected as precious and I, in fact, believe that students who are gleaning knowledge from that kind of table are truly blessed (what many would call "lucky").  

But, how unblessed or unlucky is a student really whose teacher has nothing better to do in life than to be teaching ?  I wonder why a teacher must portray that they have much better things to be doing in order for others to believe that what they are teaching is important ?  It seems that students/families respect a teacher less if that teacher openly has nothing better to do than to teach -- or perhaps this is at least what teachers are afraid of.  For example, the artist who travels the world and has little time nor inclination to teach is more sought after than the teacher who is grounded, dedicated to that teaching job and cares deeply about their students and their teaching.  It is more "Romantic" to seek, as a student, the first and as a teacher to be the first.  Isn't it ?  That's a strange philosophy to me.

Philosophically, to me it seems that actually the student whose teacher doesn't have anything better to do (in a way) than to be teaching you is the most lucky.  Either way though, what matters most is that learning is taking place.

As a teacher myself though, I often feel I am at a crossroads as to what path I should choose to take in terms of how I present myself to others.  I do wonder though, how many of the individuals who feel they must puff themselves up and treat the student as unimportant to themselves, had teachers who acted the same way with them ?  Personally, I don't thrive under those conditions.  Did the great pianists really thrive as a result of a teacher constantly acting as though they couldn't care less about them as a student, or was it actually the opposite ?  

[Bob]

I would agree that teachers are looked down upon.  

I think the systems a little messed up, including how teachers are taught.  In reality it seems to be more learning on the job rather than being taught.  And you can teach and be a teacher without any training at all.  Not that training is always great.

The teachers who are still performing attract more students if they're out successfully performing.  Not that they can teach necessarily, but they appear to know what they're doing more than someone who doesn't perform.  A performer is at least a model for a student, wether they can teach or not.  I think a lot of performers can be successful at teaching or doing something like teaching that way.  If they have plenty of students, if a few aren't learning, then they can blame it on those students and not their teaching ability.

And it still seems to be all tradition.  I'm having a hard time thinking of any research studies, anything scientific, that explain about someone learning music.  I imagine I could find a study of how music improves standardized testing scores though, but it wouldn't explain how music students learn, what good teaching methods really are, etc.  ie How to teach and how to learn.  It's not very professional as a field that way.

Haha.  What's this?  "But, how unblessed or unlucky is a student really whose teacher has nothing better to do in life than to be teaching ?"

Oh wait.... In case it disappears, I'll capture the whole post....

Education is probably my deepest passion, and one which seems to have a bottomless pit in terms of the aspects of an individual's life to be affected.  Education, like people, comes in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, yet I believe there is a fundamental vitality about each individual and humanity in general being educated.  I believe education is the very progress of our world.

In the spirit of education, with the desire to become more educated myself and to become a better teacher for my dear students, I have decided to start this thread as a form of awareness.  An idea that struck me this morning as I was sorting and straightening my thoughts and motives for the day, is with regard to an interesting attitude and accompanying belief-system that has a kind of presence in the music world.

Generally, it seems that teaching is looked down upon.  There are a number of aspects to that, but what I want to post about in this thread today is fairly specific.  What I am currently struck by is how the 'importance' of a teacher to the student is portrayed.  I observe that one of the "tricks of the trade" by teachers, whether teacher by trade or teacher as a side, is to "puff" oneself up as important, since s/he has much better things in life to be doing than teaching (this or that student, or in general).  It is a trick of the trade to give the air of the student being lucky to glean a crumb from the all-important table of knowledge that this teacher sits at.  I, in fact, believe that the teacher's time and knowledge indeed should be respected as precious and I, in fact, believe that students who are gleaning knowledge from that kind of table are truly blessed (what many would call "lucky").  

But, how unblessed or unlucky is a student really whose teacher has nothing better to do in life than to be teaching ?  I wonder why a teacher must portray that they have much better things to be doing in order for others to believe that what they are teaching is important ?  It seems that students/families respect a teacher less if that teacher openly has nothing better to do than to teach -- or perhaps this is at least what teachers are afraid of.  For example, the artist who travels the world and has little time nor inclination to teach is more sought after than the teacher who is grounded, dedicated to that teaching job and cares deeply about their students and their teaching.  It is more "Romantic" to seek, as a student, the first and as a teacher to be the first.  Isn't it ?  That's a strange philosophy to me.

Philosophically, to me it seems that actually the student whose teacher doesn't have anything better to do (in a way) than to be teaching you is the most lucky.  Either way though, what matters most is that learning is taking place.

As a teacher myself though, I often feel I am at a crossroads as to what path I should choose to take in terms of how I present myself to others.  I do wonder though, how many of the individuals who feel they must puff themselves up and treat the student as unimportant to themselves, had teachers who acted the same way with them ?  Personally, I don't thrive under those conditions.  Did the great pianists really thrive as a result of a teacher constantly acting as though they couldn't care less about them as a student, or was it actually the opposite ?  

Done.  I think there are a lot of teachers dedicated to teaching who don't *want* to do anything else than teach.  Not that they couldn't do other things.  (Although at some point, bridges are crossed and they won't be able to do other things.)


What difference does it make what you are or how people see you?  Just be yourself.  As long as you've got students coming in, you're successful.  Someone will always think something else.

You can always argue:
A teacher is less of a teacher because they don't perform much.  They focus on teaching.
Or, a teacher is more of a teacher and is more dedicated because they focus on teaching instead of performing. 
Or...
A teacher is less of a musician because they can't support themselves through performing and *have* to teach to earn a living.
Or, a teacher is more of a musician because they choose to teach as well as perform and you can only really *know* something if you teach it.
Or, a teacher is a less of a teacher because they perform -- They really want to be a performer but are only using students for income.  They focus on performance but don't really focus on teaching or improving themselves as a teacher or their students.

You can go back and forth with all those and promote or negate things whichever way you want.  There's no solution to it.

Add the money/business element into it and the teacher's probably going to spin it their way.

Or people will spin it their way for whatever reason, to make themselves feel good about what they do, because they believe things one way or the other, etc.


And then you can actually do things just for the money -- I've done that for teaching ("Music teaching *** -- Pay me, I'll teach you") and you still improve your teaching skills even when you're not being serious about it. 


The real world is definitely different than the theoretical side of teaching and education.

[timothy42b]

That's pretty philosophical, and a little scattered.  I'm not sure I followed it.

The thoughts it triggered:

It could take as much dedication and effort to master teaching as it does to master any other profession, whether as a performing artist, scientist, etc.  

As in any other profession, it is possible to slide by without making the effort.  It's probably a little easier with teaching than with most, which may account for some of the lack of respect.  

It may not be as clear how to do it with teaching.  To get better at playing piano, you take lessons and practice your butt off.  To get better at teaching piano, you.............just wait?  Take every class you can, read every book you can, spend every waking moment thinking about how to do it better?  What?  How good is good enough?  How do you measure it?

At my last conference, the boss said, "you can have a job, or a profession, or a passion.  I want you to get your people into the passion mode."  I think you're there.  

I have always looked favorably on music teachers, and been surprised by my peers' disdain.  While I saw them as talented, enthusiastic, dedicated people, others saw them as clockwatching drudges doing the bare minimum to slide by until retirement, lacking the talent and discipline to perform at the arts they pretend to teach, not very good at their jobs and not caring to do better.  In discussing this disconnect further, we realized that since I didn't have any kids in school band at the time, I only knew music teachers I met on gigs - people who were not only teaching but out in the performing world (granted at an amateur level.)  I was meeting a truncated distribution of music teachers, as were my friends; but they weren't the same set.  Did the performing keep them from burning out, or do only the enthusiastic ones seek the performance outlets?  I dunno, but I haven't met one I didn't appreciate yet out in the world.  

Like I said, random thoughts.  If I had another beer I'd type more, but I'm trying to lose weight so I'm only buying two at a time.  

[Bob]

Typing burns calories.

I think teaching and performing are too separate things. 

I would imagine a teacher's performing is done more for them and not to improve their teaching skills and for their students.  That's a secondary effect.  I can see performing as a way of getting away from teaching and doing something they enjoy though -- a way to keep from burning out and to do what they enjoy. 

For improving as a teacher, you can tell if you're presenting things better and students generally catch on faster.  If things work better than they used to.  It's hard to really measure though.  Teaching in a different area can help -- Teaching a blind student or a student with special needs.  Even teaching a different instrument. 

[keyofc]

I'm confused.
This is for teachers -
right?
The teachers forum?
How do we see each other?

I respect teachers - and I respect those who want to learn from them.
And I respect teachers who are always learning something new.

There are always the mediocre ones - just like in any profession who may not
respect their job - so in turn, do not respect their customers.

But I wouldn't generalize it.

[wojcia3333]

I come from a country that was under a communist regime for many years (Poland). Apart from all of the negative elements anybody can bring up, communism certainly understood that teachers are the future of the nation.  The respect and the importance for a teacher is certainly something that has changed over the past 20 years.

Lack of an authority and respect for a teacher, very often stops children from learning.

[nostalgy]

to be a good, realy useful teacher for all, is a rare and precious thing!So many good pianists out there, who dont have any idea how to teach! Students think that they are great because they know how to play, but this is not true.It takes so many years of thinking, practicing, devoting all your efforts and energy in serching best ways for every particular student, to have, at the end, your own system of thaught, which can serve everyone!

[m19834]

Typing burns calories.

Pretty sure that teaching burns calories, too !  haha.

I'll explain a little more about this thread, which I am actually surprised really has some responses at all !  Great !  Firstly, by "not anything better to do in life than to be teaching" I don't mean that *exactly* as it may seem.  Of course I know that everybody makes decisions and probably has more than one choice as far as how to use their talents and spend their time and such.  The spirit of what I mean, while yes a play on words, is that the teacher feels that in fact it could be a kind of highest calling or so.  That, in a sense, they feel it's the best way to be using their talents, as though the investment is truly worth it because the institute of teaching is so great ... how many teachers feel this way, I wonder ?

Also, I certainly don't mean to be pointing, necessarily, at individuals ... at least not without considering these ideas as they relate to me, too.  But, I guess I wonder about the attitude that might think something along the lines of ... "You know, you little student, there are a million other things I could be doing but instead of that, I am here with you."  Like the parent who thinks that if it weren't for their bluddy child taking up all of their time and attention, they could have pursued what really mattered to them in life.  Destructive for the child.

Some part of me thinks sometimes "You know, you little unappreciating students and parents, I could be off touring the world as an opera singer, but I'm not.  You just have NO idea !  Consider yourselves lucky to be in my presence." haha.  But, I can see that an attitude like that is not actually helpful for anybody, and it also reflects my own sense of shortcomings in my life, not truly on my students.  But even if it were true that I could be doing that and I am teaching instead, why would that actually make them any more or less lucky than if I felt that I truly had nothing better to be doing with my time and talent ?  I don't think it does.  Yet, I feel pressure to put something in my biography about the artistic successes I have had, as a selling point for my teaching ... instead of something like "I am here as a teacher for you" type of thing.  And, I observe this in other biographies as well.  

Also, sometimes resentment seems to enter the picture, and with that comes ego and pride.  Not everybody is like that, I know that.  

But, as a teacher myself, I see certain attitudes amongst parents when it comes to somebody like me vs. some of my colleagues.  I won't say in what direction, but I do notice a difference.  And, along those lines, my own thoughts and feelings about this are actually fairly affected by personal experience, including some things that I realize (in the last 24 hrs) I am believing are unforgivable (but, I also realize I'm going to need to truly forgive, but I'm not sure how).  Yes, I also realize that now I am *definitely* speaking vaguely.

Most of all though, what I actually intended this thread to be was a place to post about different things that I/people were/are learning each day about Teaching and Education.  Similarly to one I started in the student's section about "What I learned during practice today :" ...

Well, time to go  .

[timothy42b]

But, as a teacher myself, I see certain attitudes amongst parents when it comes to somebody like me vs. some of my colleagues.  

Not sure what you're getting at here.

But, I would suggest that how parents see you is almost completely under your control.

Do they think you're a professional?  Treat you with respect, pay on time?

A kindly neighbor doing them a favor?  A fellow parent?  Pajama party buddy?  High paid baby sitter?  Etc. 

I think in the vast majority of cases how they see you is solely determined by how you present yourself. 

[keyboardclass]

Yes, for me it is a calling - everyone else is wasting their time.  What did I learn today?  Certainly more than my students!

[m19834]

But, I would suggest that how parents see you is almost completely under your control.

Do they think you're a professional?  Treat you with respect, pay on time?

A kindly neighbor doing them a favor?  A fellow parent?  Pajama party buddy?  High paid baby sitter?  Etc.  

I think in the vast majority of cases how they see you is solely determined by how you present yourself.

I think this is an unrealistic attitude, actually, though it holds truth and value, and is a decent business-like approach.  The problem though is that there are barriers in "language" and, especially when it comes to something like music -- which is in many ways extremely mysterious to most individuals -- those barriers in language become a kind of gateway to hidden agendas, or entirely hidden worlds and lives.  In practical terms, one family may be seeking a teacher with certain credentials represented by papers, and because that speaks their language, they believe they are dealing with a professional, no matter how the "professional" actually behaves and no matter how they actually treat the student (and what the results are that they are getting from working with the student).  That is very real.

On the other hand, you may get a family who is knowing not to just look for the papers, but for results -- but where do they find those ?  In students having won competitions ?  Maybe.  But, even that is not always what it seems.  What if the result is rather the fact that the teacher has helped little Timmy overcome a life-long learning disorder but there is nothing in public to represent this ?  Who is more "professional" in these cases ?

For me, personally, there came a time when I stopped looking for the credentials, I just stopped caring about that.  I started looking for the person, I started looking for the learning environment, I started looking for the knowledge and skill itself (not just in another person, but in life itself) and how I responded as an individual.  It is a real thing that there are individuals within the world, and it seems especially in the scholastic realm, whom simply can't fathom that kind of draw.  I was asked recently by some close friends what it was that initially drew my attention to Marik as the right person for me to be working with, and I don't think it would have been anything that they could truly understand, since it ultimately didn't speak their language (though he has qualifications that would).  Whose fault is that though ?

Not much to add to this thread yet in terms of new ideas, but I'm getting there .

[pianowolfi]

Yes, for me it is a calling - everyone else is wasting their time.  What did I learn today?  Certainly more than my students!

As a teacher I dream of students who learn more than me, in my lessons.

[keyboardclass]

Don't cha just!

[pianowolfi]

Don't cha just!

Well yeah I'm working on it 

[m19834]

A couple of things in the past few days :

1.  The main reason to start an individual in lessons when they are young is to catch their minds within the endeavor while their thoughts are still naive enough to be free from the worldly bombardment of "what's the point ?" ... and the accompanying apathy towards all human endeavor !  haha.

2.  Having a discipline such as piano study is not just "good for the brain" in an arbitrary way, but rather an excellent platform to develop conscious eyes which see and understand the world around us.

[Bob]

The younger, the more 'brain real estate' there is too. 

I've seen other groups doing that.  "Pre-junior high" cheerleading or football.  I don't really like the competitive side where people are out to "get" students and entice them into a certain program. 

I'm not sure where #2 is going.  Music is a different way of thinking.  It uses different parts of the brain at once.

[m19834]

The younger, the more 'brain real estate' there is too. 

Ah, nah.  It's just a matter of prioritizing ! 

My Educational thought for now is that education is essentially bringing chaos into order and ultimately has the affect of mental organization.

[Bob]

If they start younger, "piano" is imprinted on more of the brain.  Something like that.  There's more unused space available. 

It could become a priority if they're exposed to it young and stick with it. 

[keyofc]

Talking about calories,
I think I use up a lot just reading Karli's posts....

[keyboardclass]

My Educational thought for now is that education is essentially bringing chaos into order and ultimately has the affect of mental organization.

Hey, I bring chaos into order to!  There's far too much order around.

[lostinidlewonder]

I believe education is the very progress of our world.

Where are where we are today from building upon what those who have left us have already built. A good teacher acts as a stepping stone for a student to progress much faster than they would otherwise. Everyone needs a teacher or someone greater than themselves to stand on the shoulders upon.

Generally, it seems that teaching is looked down upon.  There are a number of aspects to that, but what I want to post about in this thread today is fairly specific.  What I am currently struck by is how the 'importance' of a teacher to the student is portrayed.

I generally believe that many music teachers are not very good. I would say a good 80% are substandard teachers who treat each beginner like cattle and teach from a set course. Thus most so called professional teachers give professional teaching a bad image. I have never bothered to tell my students the teachers I have studied with or the concerts I have done to impress them, sometimes it comes up in conversation, but the way I impress my students is with the service I provide them. I am confident that what I provide them is better than most of the teachers out there and I reveal this to my students via their progress.

So how you teach should be held high in your own head in very high regard and you should be proud of it and confident with it. If your teaching product is personally held in high regard then the quality of your teaching will improve as you are confident in your teaching methods/strategies. I am puffed full of confident no matter which student I teach, I know I can solve their problems and help them on their way, all they have to do is meet me half way (by practicing and working on their own). Students that stump me with their problems and obscure difficulties I will meditate on the solution through the entire week and always come up with a suggestion to the solution that works for them. A good teacher thinks about their students all the time not just when they are in person with them (just like a good student thinks about what the teacher mentioned in lessons when practicing alone).

Philosophically, to me it seems that actually the student whose teacher doesn't have anything
better to do (in a way) than to be teaching you is the most lucky.  Either way though, what matters most is that learning is taking place.

I have something better to do when I teach. Not everything that I am aiming for is for the student themselves, in fact I learn a great deal more from my students than what they probably learn from me. Every single lesson I give is like a lecture for myself in teaching. I can test out all my skills, see how it works for different people, observe many different paths, find the path of best fit for the individual based on their problems etc. This process for me is much more important than teaching itself, the ability to apply teaching (a sword which only can be sharpened through practical teaching) is a skill that needs to be sharpened for serious musical professionals interested in musical education. The more I sharpen my teaching skills the easier it becomes to readily solve a students problems.

I am also very interested in a students musical journey itself as a whole. I love seeing a beginner take the first steps and seeing where they want to go from there (or mould a path for them if they have no idea and try to encourage their musical taste). I also enjoy all of my students company, each and every one of them are an individual with their own life story and personalities. I also like to get to know my students what their life interests are, what their goals are, what they love and hate. Teaching is very much a peoples job, it is never really a chore or a task really, so teachers who say they teach because they have nothing else to do might be simplifying what it means to be teaching, but the act of teaching itself is a boring useless job unless you find life meaning through the many facets of it. A student will notice if a teacher finds their meaning from teaching in a way that "it is just a job, or because I have nothing better to do"

As a teacher myself though, I often feel I am at a crossroads as to what path I should choose to take in terms of how I present myself to others.  I do wonder though, how many of the individuals who feel they must puff themselves up and treat the student as unimportant to themselves, had teachers who acted the same way with them ?  Personally, I don't thrive under those conditions.  Did the great pianists really thrive as a result of a teacher constantly acting as though they couldn't care less about them as a student, or was it actually the opposite ?  

Quiet confidence is what I use. I could blast out how my way is better and how they have been learning has been a waste of their time and money but it is unnecessary. I could also highlight how most of my students get distinctions in exams and progress much faster than with other teachers, but it is really not necessary. I have rarely had any parent or student ask me for my credentials because they realize in the first lesson that how I teach is something different and personalized. People pick up on that immediately and "get on board". I proudly present my service as the product not "big talk" or pieces of paper telling me how good I am. I think any air of arrogance or "big headedness" is very distasteful for any prospective student, you just don't need it.

The best teachers teach beginners and young beginners. These students don't care about your credentials they care about how you teach them. You must simplify your teaching in such a way that they understand you can't blast them with efficient teaching you may give to an advanced student. You have to carefully guide their understanding, reassure them when they feel insecure, encourage and motivate them to practice. Patience is extremely important as well as a constantly analyzing brain to try and solve their simple problems (which to you are as simple as breathing but for them is the most unnatural action) you must get into their mind and see things  on their terms. I literally find myself thinking like a beginner sometimes while teaching beginners and working from that, if I do not then I will explain things in a way which is too advanced for them or skips too many minute details.

So no air of arrogance highlights a good teacher in my opinion. All good teachers are very likable people they want to get to know you, they make you feel comfortable. They do this because it helps their teaching, it helps them to get into your mind and work from you not from themselves. This is an aspect of the greatest teachers in my opinion and arrogant teachers or teachers who boast just are missing the point.

[keyofc]

Keyboard class,
that's funny!  I didn't notice it first time I read it.

I think I have students that do that too.