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Topic: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!  (Read 15325 times)

Offline dss62467

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Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
on: May 20, 2010, 12:24:03 AM
I just started learning Prelude 15 last night and there's a chord in the 9th measure that is not meant for hands my size.

D flat - C - F.    Is it acceptable to play the F with my right thumb while I play the F with my right hand?  My version has it as a rolled chord, but still, that's a stretch for me.   I don't want to spend the week practicing it that way and have my teacher say "nope".

Currently learning:
Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 15
Schubert Sonata in A Major, D.959: Allegretto
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Offline stevebob

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 01:04:17 AM
There's not really a definitive answer about what's acceptable, so it's hard to predict what your teacher will suggest.  Personally, I think that a solid chord is way preferable at this spot to a rolled one.  My choice, then, would be to take the F with the right hand.  Your teacher might feel otherwise.  :)

Have you checked out any performance videos by professionals on YouTube to see if you can spot how the chord is typically handled?  I wouldn't be surprised to find that many pianists have the same limited hand span.  (I know I do; I can reach a major tenth comfortably as long as it's white key to white key or black key to black key, but it doesn't work when it's black-to-white or vice versa.)
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline dss62467

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
Thanks!  I'll fluff around with it and see what works best.  For the most part, my teacher will tell me to do what works for me.  We have fingering disagreements that I sometimes win.  I'll play with the solid chord and with the roll and see how I like each.   I'll have a listen to my recording of Alexandre Tharaud playing it too, to see how he plays it.   

My teacher tried to assign this to me last year but I think I thought it was too hard.  Funny... I sight read my way through it yesterday and thought, "bah!  this isn't so hard!"  Technically anyway... lots of expression to add.... I'm excited!
Currently learning:
Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 15
Schubert Sonata in A Major, D.959: Allegretto

Offline stevebob

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 11:40:46 AM
Enjoy!

BTW, I looked at a number of editions yesterday to see how the chord was notated, and none of them included the symbol to arpeggiate it.  And then I remembered to check the Joseffy—and found it there.  Funny how what you're looking for is always in the last place you look.   ;D
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline nmitchell076

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 02:13:24 PM
when I last played this prelude, I had to try a couple of different ways to find out what worked.  taking it between the hands (IE, play top note with the R.H.) didn't work because it was difficult for me to preserve the tone quality when switching between the hands.  The bottom note always stood out more then I wanted it to (especially since its just an accompaniment figure).  So I rolled the chord, but the important thing is to make sure that the rolled chord doesn't interrupt the flow of the rhythm and to make sure that it doesn't stand out of the surrounding texture.  If you roll the chord correctly, nobody will even realize you've rolled it (I hate how that works haha).

Incidentally, here's another suggestion for fingering that isn't notated in any editions I saw.  In mm. 3, I like to play the 16th note Ab (in the treble clef) with my R.H.  So the counter-melody figure would work: Gb/C (lh 2/4) - Ab (rh thumb) - Bb (lh thumb).  This might sound needless at first, but the advantage is that you are able to make your counter-melody legato (instead of two thumbs, which is near impossible to make legato) while you allow a pedal change in order to make the high Gb in the R.H. stand out.

Anyways, just a suggestion.  I LOVE the raindrop prelude, hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Pieces:
Beethoven - Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31 No. 2
Chopin - Nocturne in Bb minor Op. 9 No. 1
Debussy - "La Danse De Puck"
Somers - Sonnet No. 3, "Primeval"
Gershwin - Concerto in F

Offline dss62467

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 03:19:11 PM
Thanks - you're doing a crossing of the thumbs for the Ab/Bb?   I actually love doing that fingering - it feels "fancy".   ;D   I do love the piece - it's so beautiful

Stevebob - that is the exact edition I have.  I find it amusing how editions will differ like that.  Like when I learned the first movement of Moonlight back when I was 14, the octave A - B chord was always rolled.  When I'm an adult, I can't find that written anywhere. 
Currently learning:
Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 15
Schubert Sonata in A Major, D.959: Allegretto

Offline tsachi

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #6 on: May 22, 2010, 12:23:34 PM
Maybe you can just omit the F note. No one will realy hear the small cheat. If your hands continue to grow you will eventually be able to reach it.
"Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on."

Frederic Chopin.

Offline dss62467

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #7 on: May 22, 2010, 12:47:07 PM
 ;D  I'm almost 43, if my hands grow.... I think I'd better go see a doctor.    ;D ;D ;D

You're right about dropping the F.  I am getting used to playing it with my right thumb, but there are some almost painful stretches at the end of the piece that may require dropping a note.   I think... I've downloaded the version from this site and it's laid out differently on the page. Sometimes seeing it written differently makes it seem simpler.

Currently learning:
Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 15
Schubert Sonata in A Major, D.959: Allegretto

Offline nmitchell076

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 05:59:53 PM
I wouldn't drop the note, or any notes for that matter.  With other chopin works, it's fine.  But the texture of 15 is pretty thin and there is a lot of subtle counterpoint in it that would be lost if you drop some of the notes.

Again, I'm not one of the "never ever ever EVER EVER drop notes when performing" people, but in this particular prelude, I wouldn't recommend that option.
Pieces:
Beethoven - Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31 No. 2
Chopin - Nocturne in Bb minor Op. 9 No. 1
Debussy - "La Danse De Puck"
Somers - Sonnet No. 3, "Primeval"
Gershwin - Concerto in F

Offline dss62467

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Re: Chopin Prelude 15 - fingers!
Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 04:37:48 PM
No worries, after practicing it for a week, I have gotten used to playing it with my right thumb.  My instructor insists that I roll the chord, though.... so I'll just have to decide which way I prefer and if it's not rolled, I will only roll at the lesson.  Only one left until September anyway.
Currently learning:
Chopin Prelude Op. 28, no. 15
Schubert Sonata in A Major, D.959: Allegretto
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