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(VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11 (Read 3366 times)

Offline dannyjun

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(VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
« on: May 29, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »
Live 3rd March 2010, Kromeriz, Czech Republic, Petrof piano



Enjoy, comment, critise... ;)

Daniel

piano sheet music of Toccata


Offline pianowolfi

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 04:56:13 PM »
Honestly, I don't like this performance, sorry. It's too raw and brutal. Of course it is a percussive piece but I miss elasticity, flexibility. It sounds too hard and forced. Perhaps you might try to play more with a "trampoline" feeling. Actually we don't need to force music. More like let it unfold.

Offline orangesodaking

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 02:42:21 AM »
Honestly, I don't like this performance, sorry. It's too raw and brutal. Of course it is a percussive piece but I miss elasticity, flexibility. It sounds too hard and forced. Perhaps you might try to play more with a "trampoline" feeling. Actually we don't need to force music. More like let it unfold.

I think it just needs a little more speed, and then it will flow very well and be a great performance. :)

Argerich used to be my standard for this pieces, but now I actually like Xiaotang Tan's (Tang Tang?) LIVE performance better! It has a MUCH more kick*** sound than Argerich's, in my opinion.

Offline dannyjun

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 11:55:47 AM »
Thanks for your comments, this is really hard piece and I am still not satisfied with result too...

But, about the force, in fact it is a bit problem of the recording itself... Maybe it si just me but it is impossible to play it in mf at this speed...and the camera takes  the sound too much...
all the best

Offline miken49

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 06:07:46 PM »
Really I found that in the recital that the playing was great, but many times I couldn't make a good judgement of your performances because of the one dimensional sound. Which makes it impossible to hear details.

*sigh* Just one of the many problems of being a good amateur pianist.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 06:31:05 PM »
Thanks for your comments, this is really hard piece and I am still not satisfied with result too...

But, about the force, in fact it is a bit problem of the recording itself... Maybe it si just me but it is impossible to play it in mf at this speed...and the camera takes  the sound too much...
all the best

Yes I believe you. But anyway. If you are already ff when it says f in the first minute there is no room for increasing dynamics to that huge buildup during the piece! It's sorta out of control. pp in the beginning, cresc. towards p, the first f appears only in M. 44!!! And during the whole piece it's actually not more than ff as far as I can see. But what you do towards the end is not only fff but just banging....But well...who am I to criticize...it IS very difficult and perhaps I would fall in the exact same trap :P Because this piece is freaking stimulative  ;D


Offline rachfan

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 11:16:41 PM »
Hi Daniel,

By and large, this is a very good rendition of this difficult Toccata.  It's certainly well within your technical grasp.  I agree with wolfi that more dynamic control would be helpful.  Also, using natural arm weight might help to assure more musicality in the forearm staccato passages which are somewhat harsh now.  

One thing I noticed is that the Petrof is not in the most conducive room for performance/recording. With paneled walls, window glass, and a bare wood floor (and probably the ceiling too), no matter where you look, all of the room surfaces are highly reflective (not to mention the piano lid itself), causing very "live" acoustics overall.  This does not help the tone you produce.  In that particular situation, I would lower the piano lid onto the shorter "singer" prop, which would still give you ample sound, but also help to tame the room acoustics a bit.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline point of grace

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 01:20:51 AM »
Thanks for your comments, this is really hard piece and I am still not satisfied with result too...

But, about the force, in fact it is a bit problem of the recording itself... Maybe it si just me but it is impossible to play it in mf at this speed...and the camera takes  the sound too much...
all the best
yeah, that's is so true, cameras take videos in a louder and more annoying unpleasured sound lo listen to...
Learning:

Chopin Polonaise Op. 53
Brahms Op. 79 No. 2
Rachmaninoff Op. 16 No. 4 and 5

Offline pianist1976

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 07:29:11 AM »
Congratulations, dannyjun. You did a really good job with that difficult piece. I'm not really bothered by the speed, I think that the interpretative possibilities are so wide that the toccata played at this speed can be also appealing. I really appreciate your work, this is not an easy piece at all and it has many difficulties such as 9th extensions, jupms, fast hands crosing... You also worked very well the difficult voicing of the upper melody at bar 77. Keep the good job and keep on improving.  ;)

But I also think, just as some other forum members said, that sometimes it sounds a bit hard and a see in your video that in some places your are striking the keys from a maybe too high position. If you manage to round a bit your sound you'll play an excellent toccata. I'm giving an advice but I'm sure that I have myself many, many things to improve and working in my piano playing ;)

And I also agree: some videocams are a real pain in sound recording. I own a five years Panasonic cam. Superb image quality but who cares: it records all music sounds awfully plain, no matter you are playing an mf or a ff.  >:(

Offline dannyjun

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 09:50:42 AM »
Hi Daniel,

By and large, this is a very good rendition of this difficult Toccata.  It's certainly well within your technical grasp.  I agree with wolfi that more dynamic control would be helpful.  Also, using natural arm weight might help to assure more musicality in the forearm staccato passages which are somewhat harsh now.  

One thing I noticed is that the Petrof is not in the most conducive room for performance/recording. With paneled walls, window glass, and a bare wood floor (and probably the ceiling too), no matter where you look, all of the room surfaces are highly reflective (not to mention the piano lid itself), causing very "live" acoustics overall.  This does not help the tone you produce.  In that particular situation, I would lower the piano lid onto the shorter "singer" prop, which would still give you ample sound, but also help to tame the room acoustics a bit.

David

Hi David

you´ve got a point here...
The piano is really TOO loud for the little hall...

Offline birba

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 04:44:53 PM »
Well, I think you've got the point by now.  The speed is alright.  It can be played faster - but that doesn't necessarily make it more exciting.  YOU can make it more exciting by observing the dynamics and phrasing.  It's monotone and has no movement or direction.  You've got to do some slow-motion practising.  That is, slow practise but with ALL the dynamics and intensive concentration on where the music is going.  Exaggerate the pianissimos and crescendos and diminuendos.  Build up those climaxes and even anticipate them a bit with a stentato tempo.  You've certainly got the technique and material to perform this piece, but for the moment, nothing to show for it.

Offline mrba1979

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 06:00:49 PM »
I have not heard this piece before and I really enjoyed it.
I am no longer fighting my inner demons.  We are now all on the same side.

Offline max747

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #12 on: June 14, 2010, 04:50:55 AM »
I liked the way u played that piece, and too me harsh sounds are what the piece is about. I dnt like the piece very much as I think the pianist"s virtuosity is wasted on music so harsh. But I heard others play this and u play it on par with the rest. My only comment is that in the begginig u should bring out the changing melody and maybe bring down the repeating notes gradually. Like starting the changing and repeating notes the same volume and then slowly bring down the repeating while crecendo the changing...sry hard to understand
good job
Seattle International piano festival search it up on google

Offline arielpiano

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #13 on: July 01, 2010, 01:53:47 PM »
OK, I found your other post. Great command and control. Obviously, you can do pretty much whatever you want. Very impressive.

Offline point of grace

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 02:46:18 AM »
I have not heard this piece before and I really enjoyed it.
yah, love the moment when you listen to a great piece for the first time!!!
Learning:

Chopin Polonaise Op. 53
Brahms Op. 79 No. 2
Rachmaninoff Op. 16 No. 4 and 5

Offline lontano

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 01:24:46 AM »
Live 3rd March 2010, Kromeriz, Czech Republic, Petrof piano



Enjoy, comment, critise... ;)

Daniel
Taking in all the various comments regarding dannyjun's performance of this knuckle-buster I find it interesting to listen to Prokoviev's own performance (it's among the assorted performances listed under danny's performance). Now Prokoviev was quite a famous performer as a young man and pretty much made his living with his concertizing. Now I suggest everyone compare the composer's performance with dannyjun's and another favorite and figure out how many ways this piece has been interpreted. It's quite interesting.

L.
...and she disappeared from view while playing the Agatha Christie Fugue...

Offline lost_child

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 08:42:17 AM »
Emm in my opinion, you are just too tense, just relax. XD The way you played this piece is so bombastic, yet ppl doesnt know exactly where is the climax. Maybe you can insert a little bit of "sarcastic jokes" inside, so this piece will becoming more interesting because of varies interpretation, instead of brutality and verocity. Lol.

But I really2 like your playing, your strength, your technique, and your so-prokofiev-percussif style. :D

Offline scottmcc

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Re: (VIDEO) Prokofiev - Toccata op.11
«Reply #17 on: September 27, 2010, 10:10:11 AM »
I think others have already made sufficient critiques of the recording/sound quality issues, so I shan't mention those.  I think this is a very good performance of an exceptionally challenging work, and I commend your efforts.  Is it perfect?  No.  But I urge anyone that would criticize this performance to do better!  dannyjun, I look forward to other recordings from you.

Offline lontano

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Re: (VIDEO) Smetana Etude
«Reply #18 on: September 27, 2010, 07:08:59 PM »
Live 3rd March 2010, Kromeriz, Czech Republic, Petrof piano



Enjoy, comment, critise... ;)

Daniel
I just listened to this Smetana Etude for the 1st time and WOW, it's not only a very demanding work, it's also exhilarating and beautiful as well as beautifully performed. I've never heard it before so I have nothing but the score to give me some sense of "how well" you played it, but as the pages fly by it's easy to get lost (and I believe you added repeats of one or more sections that are not indicated in my score (IMSLP)). I would never have guessed Smetana as the composer, although I do hear Czech harmonies. I was unaware that he had written any virtuoso piano works.  :-[

The one issue that is most hindering to the recording is the acoustic of the hall (and possibly the piano) you are playing as pointed out by rachfan (David) in reviewing the Prokofiev Toccata. But as far as I'm concerned you really seem to relish in performing very demanding (and flashy) works with considerable panache. I'd love to hear more of your performances, so keep up the great work!

Lontano
...and she disappeared from view while playing the Agatha Christie Fugue...