Brahms' Second

[nearenough]

There is a phrase of fifths, fourths, and thirds taken by the right hand in the first movement which seems unplayable at the speeds the average concert pianist seems to play them. In the Schirmer edition, ed. Edwin Hughes, ©1922 on page 27 near the top, occurs the first iteration of this upward sweep phrase: a#-f#; c#-g#; etc. The next page (28) has two more of these phrases, the second of which seems even more impossible. Does anyone suspect that many players leave some notes out here?

In the last movement there are phrases of triplets for both hands which also seem impossible at speed. Page 96 right hand starting with high a-c; b flat-d, etc, with the left hand a-c; b flat-d; marked scherz. legg. This scheme is repeated on page 112.

All these are extremely tricky and awkward to play as written. Does anyone have work-arounds, or is this a special pianistic legerdemain known only to advanced professionals? Thanks for the help.

[perfect_pitch]

Erm....

Brahms Second What?

Intermezzo?
Ballade?
Piano Concerto?
Hungarian Dance?

He DID write a lot of music after all...

[stevebob]

Erm....

Brahms Second What?

Intermezzo?
Ballade?
Piano Concerto?
Hungarian Dance?

He DID write a lot of music after all...

Erm ... if you read beyond the title of the thread, you would know.

[nearenough]

I meant Brahms' Second PIANO CONCERTO. Now I suppose it's going to be WHICH BRAHMS? Anatoly Brahms, Mrs. Brahms....

Does anyone have any reasonable answers to my musical and fingering questions?

[perfect_pitch]

Erm ... if you read beyond the title of the thread, you would know.

Could also have been a piano sonata, or a trio... they all have movements. No need to be a f@cking smart-arse...

It was a genuine question. And no nearenough - I'm not f@cking stupid - I know which Brahms you're talking about, so don't treat me like an idiot.

[stevebob]

Could also have been a piano sonata, or a trio... they all have movements. No need to be a f@cking smart-arse...

That's exactly how you came across with your pointless and gratuitous question, and it's how you come across now with your ad hominem attacks.

It was a genuine question. And no nearenough - I'm not f@cking stupid - I know which Brahms you're talking about, so don't treat me like an idiot.

I don't believe it was a genuine question at all, as the intermezzi, ballades and Hungarian dances you originally mentioned aren't multi-movement works.  Also, while you may not be aware of it, the Hughes edition of Op. 83 published by Schirmer is pretty well-known.

I think you were being a "f@cking smart-arse" and are upset because you got called on it.

[mistermoe]

I think you are both acting pretty smart-arsy and i fear it will go on for ever 
Now give each other a hug or i will get the Thaly-Bear to do so...and those seem to be pretty bonecrushing! (at least, that's what they say on the steets)

And if that's done, why not reply in a more on-topic manner?!

(Who's the smart-arse now, ha! In your face! )

[horowitzian]

I think you are both acting pretty smart-arsy and i fear it will go on for ever 
Now give each other a hug or i will get the Thaly-Bear to do so...and those seem to be pretty bonecrushing! (at least, that's what they say on the steets)

And if that's done, why not reply in a more on-topic manner?!

(Who's the smart-arse now, ha! In your face! )

Playing moderator probably won't help.

[mistermoe]

Playing moderator probably won't help.

Naaah really? I know, man. I'm not f@cking stupid! Now stop being a smart-arse!

[horowitzian]

I swear, a lot of people on this forum have something up their arse!

[mistermoe]

haha!

(i feel guilty for being so off-topic)

Ok. Now for something completely different:
about that Brahms thing somebody was talking about earlier, if i remember correctly.

I haven't played this Brahms but i tried the first example.
I don't think it's easier playing it, leaving out notes. I find it quite fitting for my hand actually. It's definatly the speed making it horrible to play.
You always have the same pattern (fingering): (12) 13 24 35
First work on 13 24 35. Give a little impulse on 13 and let the whole arm (not the fingers!!) play the other notes. It would be so much easier, if i could show you on the piano.
The difficulty is this impluse while playing 12 just before and not accentuating it.
A little trick is, to show the triplet in the left hand.

It's the same fingering as playing scales in thirds.
Work on them in c-major a lot (13 24 35 12 13 24 35). Every day! Then in other key with similar fingering. And always with different rhythm.
The Brahms is nothing else, just with another hand-position.
For working on those technical passages you just have to be creative (e.g. other hand-positions/keys, backwards, ....)


(oh my, i love this concerto so much )

[nearenough]

Thanks, MrMoe, that was what I was looking for. Some kind of confidence so now I know the thing can be thought playable.