Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata

[emma92]

I just heard Beethoven's Appassionata sonata a few days ago for the first time and I love it I like it better than the pathetique and moonlight sonatas.
 
I especially like the third movement and I want to learn it, but apparently it's past grade 8 and diploma standard so I think it might be too much of a challenge for me.
I'm on grade 8 now and I'm learning the 3rd movement of the pathetique sonata and the most difficult thing I can play is the fantasie impromptu.

So I'm just wondering what do you think, is it too challening?
And if anyone can play it how difficult was it to learn?

Here's the link to Valentina Lisitsa playing it, she's absolutley brilliant

[pianowolfi]

It's certainly a huge step from Pathetique to Appassionata! I would recommend to learn at least two other Beethoven Sonatas before, for instance op. 2 No. 1 and the "Storm", op. 31 No. 2. Op 2 No. 1 is also sometimes called the "Little Appassionata"

[thalbergmad]

Wise words (as usual) from Wolfi. Like a high jumper, it is wise only to move the bar up by small amounts to avoid failure.

When I was studying, I was straining at the leash to learn this, but teacher sensibly held me back until I was better prepared.

Playing a couple of other Beethoven sonatas is of course an excellent foundation, but you might want to investigate Dussek as well.

Thal

[emma92]

Thanks for the advice, yeah I did think it might be a bit much for me just yet.
I listened to the 'storm' sonata I think I might learn it:)

I'll have to listen to some Dussek, I've actually never heard of him.

[scottmcc]

most Americans refer to op 31 #2 as "The Tempest," although "Storm" is an accurate translation of Beethoven's famous remark about that sonata (referring to Shakespeare's "The Tempest").

I hadn't heard op 2 #1 referred to as the "Little Appasionata."  I like that one.

you could certainly work on the middle movement of the appasionata--while the final variation is certainly challenging, overall it's not too tough.

[carrot_cake]

The middle is just marvelous isn't it. BUT i wouldn't underestimate it's difficulty. The last sections leaves the left incredibly exposed and one slip and the magic disappates. But it is a great piece to help add control of the left hand if you're able to put the time in. But as scottmc aludes to, don't assume because it's a 'slow' movement it'll be a doddle.

[furtwaengler]

May I just express my joy that there are still in 2010, people who are only now discovering such famous and, even to some, overplayed masterpieces of the past for the first time! Something to remember...that even though we may be mindful of the history and the performance practices and that audiences are mindful of the same things, any performance of the Appassionata or works like it may be (likely will be) the first time someone in those audiences has heard it. Isn't it inspirational? Doesn't it breath new life into the process? And it magnifies the responsibility at the same time.

Ah well, I just think that's cool. I am now remembering the first time I heard the slow movement of op. 2 no. 3! Wow, you can go back and be that for somebody.  

[pianowolfi]

most Americans refer to op 31 #2 as "The Tempest," although "Storm" is an accurate translation of Beethoven's famous remark about that sonata (referring to Shakespeare's "The Tempest").

Yes of course you're right, it's "The Tempest" that Beethoven related to when he was asked. We use to say "Sturm-Sonate" in German. 

[pianowolfi]

May I just express my joy that there are still in 2010, people who are only now discovering such famous and, even to some, overplayed masterpieces of the past for the first time! Something to remember...that even though we may be mindful of the history and the performance practices and that audiences are mindful of the same things, any performance of the Appassionata or works like it may be (likely will be) the first time someone in those audiences has heard it. Isn't it inspirational? Doesn't it breath new life into the process? And it magnifies the responsibility at the same time.

Ah well, I just think that's cool. I am now remembering the first time I heard the slow movement of op. 2 no. 3! Wow, you can go back and be that for somebody.  

so true

[quantum]

May I just express my joy that there are still in 2010, people who are only now discovering such famous and, even to some, overplayed masterpieces of the past for the first time! Something to remember...that even though we may be mindful of the history and the performance practices and that audiences are mindful of the same things, any performance of the Appassionata or works like it may be (likely will be) the first time someone in those audiences has heard it. Isn't it inspirational? Doesn't it breath new life into the process? And it magnifies the responsibility at the same time.

Ah well, I just think that's cool. I am now remembering the first time I heard the slow movement of op. 2 no. 3! Wow, you can go back and be that for somebody.  

Couldn't have said it better 

[liordavid]

Although i think that there is a perfect bridge with the beethoven sonatas in order of difficulty, I deffenitely think that it is a better idea to do a couple of sonatas by other composers before tackling the Apassionata. Maybe Hummel, Dussek(like someone said) or clementi (all of his works are gorgeus) Remember, sonatas can take more than a year to thourgholy study and learn so you have a couple of sonatas the that you really like.

[birba]

May I just express my joy that there are still in 2010, people who are only now discovering such famous and, even to some, overplayed masterpieces of the past for the first time! Something to remember...that even though we may be mindful of the history and the performance practices and that audiences are mindful of the same things, any performance of the Appassionata or works like it may be (likely will be) the first time someone in those audiences has heard it. Isn't it inspirational? Doesn't it breath new life into the process? And it magnifies the responsibility at the same time.

Ah well, I just think that's cool. I am now remembering the first time I heard the slow movement of op. 2 no. 3! Wow, you can go back and be that for somebody.  

My sentiments exactly!  When I read the opening thread I was thinking the same thing!!

[dtao12]

to emma92
I agree w. other posters about gradually building up and not being too impatient. Big leap from Pathetique and Fantasie Impromptu to Appassionata, especially the last movement. It's tough to manage  the control and evenness in the fingering in the RH, and some of the LH passages that don't look hard on paper are taxing on endurance at full speed. For the main theme of 3rd mvt, you either need very strong 4th and 5th fingers (in RH especially), which makes it not hard to get the notes but hard to keep the notes even and equal in strength, or else you have to do lots of crossovers to the thumb or 3, which gives more strength at the expense of accuracy. Deciding which fingering approach, and mastering it, is the key I think to that movement.

A good sequence for learning might be movement 2, then 1, then 3. If you feel comfortable with both 2 and 1, then you're at least within shouting distance of 3.

But speeds vary quite a bit, and if you don't try to take it too fast, it can still be worth the trouble to learn even if you don't get it to recital level, just because the music is so great.

1st movement has a few difficult parts, but long stretches that are not so hard compared to the 3rd. The main challenge in 1st movement is interpretation and emotional temperature, I think. Being passionate and individual without being arbitrary.

I played Pathetique, Moonlight, Tempest sonatas, and while the Tempest is a great piece, I don't think it is harder than the other two, so it's not necessarily a stepping stone to Appassionata but worthy in its own right. Ironically, some BACH might help you prepare the technique for the 3rd mvt (e.g., Well Tempered Clavier Bk 1 Prelude and Fugue in D, with its unrelenting sixteenths in the RH in the prelude.

I just happen to be working on both the Appassionata and that Bach, and I wasn't expecting the connection, but I realize that fixing my weaknesses in one will help me in the other).

Best wishes!