Broken octaves - pathetique mvmt 1

[ggpianogg]

Hi guys,

I'm learning the first mvmt of the pathetique. It's going quite well, but I'm finding I have some trouble with the broken octaves in the left hand (in the Allegro molto e con brio part). Specifically; when I'm just playing the same octave all along, there is no trouble and I could probably go on for ages (I play the broken octaves through the rotation of the forearm and wrist, of course). But if I'm playing at full speed, I start to experience biceps stifness/pain extremely quickly, as soon as I begin moving the octaves up the scale. This happens especially when I'm moving from the white keys to the black keys. I tried experimenting with different sitting positions (higher, lower, further and closer from the piano etc). I'm also taking very careful care to keep my left arm relaxed while playing the broken octaves. None of it is helping unfortunately.

Could it be that I simply don't possess enough stamina yet to play this? (I haven't been playing for a long time).

On a side note: actually, even when I play it at half speed, I still experience this stifness (only to a much lighter degree).

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark

[stevebob]

I don't have any specific suggestion or remedy for your problem, but you might find some from a search of past discussions.  I just tried searching on pathetique tremolos, and it pulled up some stuff that could be useful.

[ggpianogg]

Thanks a lot, I didn't even know that they were called tremolos. I tried searching "broken octaves pathetique" but didn't find anything useful. I'll try your suggestion then.

[ggpianogg]

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a solution to my problem through the search feature, so if someone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

[birba]

Practise (first slowly, then up to speed, and then faster) playing them as octaves.  Then do the same thing, using only the fifth finger.  Always keep in mind that the fifth finger and thumb are not of the same volume and weight.  The thumb is  much lighter.  That's why you can do it slow and half-speed, but can't get any faster.  The thumb is like a grace note to the following fifth finger
note. 
Anyhow, try it and see if it works.

[ggpianogg]

Thanks, I'll start trying this today (i've already done something similar in fact, but I did it quite briefly so it might not have been enough time).

On a side note, I think I might have found something that may be responsible for the problem. I noticed that while playing those tremolos, the whole time my my palm is rotated more in the direction of the pinky (after reading your post I realize this might be because I'm trying to overcompensate for this finger's weakness when compared to the thumb). When I tried keeping my palm "level" with the keys' surface, I noticed I could pull off the tremolos with much less strain; although now they seem to require some more forearm rotation.

Anyway, thanks a lot, now I got something to test. If anyone has any other suggestions; have at it.