Ravel's Ondine - RH chord tremolo

[ondine88]

The RH chord tremolos in Ravel's Ondine are obviously a challenge.  

Does anyone have tips on how to play this well if one does not have naturally great piano fingers?

((I just found the following tips from fnork in 2007 on this forum. Huge thanks!!  Will try it out.  Still interested in other ppl's input as well.

fnork "Devote a lot of time to really master the opening RH figuration, which also occur later in the piece. Don't begin with trying to play it ppp - start at maybe mf or piano, slowly, and after sometime, you'll be able to play it very softly. Make sure your right hand is ABSOLUTELY relaxed - if it tenses up in performance, you are in serious trouble. Gieseking had good advice about dividing the opening figure in 3 + 3 + 2, making a small lift with the hand between those divisions where the repeated chords occur. At first you can exaggerate this lift - in performance tempo it is hardly noticable but helps making you more relaxed in the hand. I often practice this way and it has been helpful in improving speed without becoming tense. I still feel that the opening is the most difficult part of the whole piece... it's almost never good enough.

Also, air-playing and then gradually lower to play the keys."))

[lostinidlewonder]

It is all in the lightness of the thumb. Feel the pulse (1 11 11)  (1 11 11)

[tds]

strange, but i never seem to have too big a problem playing it. maybe balance and correct rhythmic sense of tension and release.

[birba]

p.s.  Agosti always maintained that the r.h. figuration never changes, as it does in almost all editions.  But I always enjoyed that rythmic variation.

[pianist1976]

The RH chord tremolos in Ravel's Ondine are obviously a challenge.  

Does anyone have tips on how to play this well if one does not have naturally great piano fingers?

In my humble opinion, it's just here where the problem starts. You are talking only about fingers. That may be right because they are those who make contact with the keys and they are those who in the last term "play" the piano but you are forgetting what Horowitz and Neuhaus called "a well prepared for the defense rearguard", that is, the rest of the body, starting on the wrist and finishing in the shoulders and, sometimes, the entire back.

In this concrete case of the marvelous Ondine tremolo, I've been playing it since more that 10 years ago and this is the way I play it (of course I'm not pretending it is the only way nor it's the greatest, it's just the way it works for me   ). Your wrist at a middle height, not too high, not too much low but allways under the height of the knuckle. A very slight wrist rotation helps the fingers in their dutty (that's what I miss mentioning in your post). Avoid any stiffness of the wrist while doing this rotation. Fingers slightly active to reach precisely the keys. Release the muscles you don't use: it is, when your wrist is on the left (chord), relax pinky (5), when your wrist is at the right, relax the fingers that a split second before played the chord (thumb, 2 and 3/4). Doing a soft and "harmonious" (it is, a non abrupt) movement of your elbow can help you to relax.

And regarding the sonority and dynamics, it depends a lot on the instrument. This pieces were not intended to be played on upright pianos. The are much more playable on grands with a good double scape repetition system (Ravel owned an splendid Erard grand piano). But if you don't have one, don't be afraid, you can rehearse the movements and still be close to what is intended. When you'll play it on a grand, that will be a great pleasure. If you own a well maintained grand, good for you  

And a last advice, look for a good teacher. A forum may help you but can never substitute the live and personalized advices that an advanced teacher can do for you, from both a musical an technical point of view. The risk of injury playing advanced pieces like this without having a minimal background is too high.   (better not talking about Scarbo....)  

[miken49]

Fake it.  What it only needs to sound like water.

[ondine88]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, I'll be keep them in mind

lostinidlewonder's lightness in thumb and pulse suggestion worked a miracle on my playing and I am insanely, eternally grateful!!!!


..."elle pleura quelques larmes, poussa un éclat de rire, et s’évanouit en giboulées qui ruisselaient blanches le long de mes vitraux bleus"

[lostinidlewonder]

You are welcome. Notice that also the pulse does start putting rests in now and then (1 -1 11) where - is the rest. Similar to the initial (1 11 11), and also sometimes we use middle fingers without the 1 in the pulse. Even though the thumb doesn't play it still controls the other fingers so things feel the same.

[tuufy]

hi, i didnt read the answars thru, so maybe someone already told it but its is said in some releases of the text to practice the tremolo with emphasis on the chord.