My Piano Saga

[jaiesh_bhai]

Hello everyone on Pianostreet! I am kind of new to the Piano world and also to this forum. I am hoping I can really fit in and join this community. By the way my saga is not really a saga. 

Anyways let's get down to the important stuff. I always was interested in Piano music, however as due to my parent's financial circumstances I never really got to do much piano related as a child. Now that I have some of my own money (limited amount since I just started college) I was able to buy a crappy, for lack of better words, keyboard. It does not have weighted keys, the tone sounds  wrong ( I wouldn't know since I haven't got much experience in piano), and it does not have a pedal. So I feel like I would be hurting myself when it comes to actually playing a real piano if I practice on this one, however it's the best I can do for the time being.

So far I have started to look at sheet music and trying to read the notes. Some notation I do not understand. Also I need to improve knowing where the notes belong on the keys and my actual body motion seems rusty. Its not fluid I miss a lot on the keys. I know I cannot get all the answers from others but I would appreciate it if anyone knew any good starting point to get a good footing. Such as a book or a method of training yourself to play the piano. Due to limited finance I cannot get an actual teacher at this time. I will look into that sooner or later.

So I plan on coming on this forum to learn a few things since I read through some threads and it seems like its a great community with a lot of class and an abundance of information. I plan on updating my progress on this thread if any of you are interested in how my piano venture goes (and of course if you want to provide me with some tips).

Sorry for the lengthy post! Here is a more simple version of what I am asking.

1) Would using an inferior keyboard to learn affect how I actually learn?

2) Is there any good book or place I can go to get a good starting point or footing?

3) What is a good music piece to begin learning with?

4) Is there any way I can make my fingers more fluid on the keyboard? I feel more clumsy and rigid while playing then I should be after a week of trying.

Whooh. Well there it is. I really do appreciate anyones help or interest. Many thanks in advance!

[butterfly79]

Hello,

I am an adult beginner with a similar history to you. I always loved piano and played for about 6 mnths as a teen before financial issues became a problem for my parents. Well at 31 I decided to take lessons. I assume that since you are in college you plan on self teaching? If this is the case you will have some issues because a teacher is the ultimate way to learn but you can go on youtube and there are people that have "lessons" on youtube. This may help you.

Keyboard, as a beginner this is fine to learn on but not for long. I am currently practicing at home on a similar keyboard to yours and play on a piano at my lessons. My teacher is amazed that I am not having issues because the keys are placed differently, the weight issues, size etc. The main issue (at this point) you will have is the weight of the keys. You will have problems with Piano, Mezzo Piano, Forte, etc. This is my biggest issue and soon you will run out of keys but you aren't there yet. So go ahead and use your keyboard until you need a piano.

As for books, Dozen a Day is good and Adult Adventures of Piano is really good too for beginners. For learning the notes go online and look up piano notes, there should be a diagram of the staff and the note placement of them. In the Adult Advetures book there is a diagram and it will teach you spaces and steps of the notes to help remember them.


Try

[butterfly79]

I forgot to mention when practicing used single hands. Play with your right hand, then your left. Then try them together.

You will need to do online searches for beginner pieces. Go slow, learn to count the notes while you play for the correct rythm.

[quantum]

1) Would using an inferior keyboard to learn affect how I actually learn?

Yes, as you will not be able to practice the subtleties of touch and dynamics.  

Try searching for used pianos.  A lot of them are quite affordable.

You may also wish to seek out an alternate practice location with an acoustic piano.

2) Is there any good book or place I can go to get a good starting point or footing?

Search this forum for posts by the user Bernhard.  He has written a lot.  

3) What is a good music piece to begin learning with?

Bernhard has answered this.

4) Is there any way I can make my fingers more fluid on the keyboard? I feel more clumsy and rigid while playing then I should be after a week of trying.

Be patient, your body needs to get accustomed to the keyboard geography.  Your accuracy will improve over time.

[faulty_damper]

1) Would using an inferior keyboard to learn affect how I actually learn?

2) Is there any good book or place I can go to get a good starting point or footing?

3) What is a good music piece to begin learning with?

4) Is there any way I can make my fingers more fluid on the keyboard? I feel more clumsy and rigid while playing then I should be after a week of trying.

A1: No, an interior keyboard will let you learn whatever you need on that keyboard but understand that transferring abilities learned to another instrument may be damn near impossible.

A2: There are many thoughts on "where to start".  The best place is any place.  Because you are new, it doesn't matter if you start here or there because they all mean absolutely nothing until you connect the dots.  When you are ready, you'll explore on your own, either to find more books, or a teacher.

A3: The best piece to start learning is one you want to play.  Note the difference between liking a piece and actually want to play the piece.  You probably already have one in mind that fits both requirements.

A4:  Fluidity is a result of repeated movement which initiates a neurological and physiological change. In the beginning, it's safest to choose movements that are the easiest to do because it requires little accommodation of your muscles and nerves.  In other words, you need to learn to use what you currently have.  If your muscles are burning, you are probably doing something wrong.

[total_newb]

Hi there,
Everyone else did a great job of answering your questions, I think, but I just wanted to provide a bit of my personal experience in case it might help you. I, too, started off on a cheapie, non-weighted electric keyboard back around the first of March (4 months ago). For the first solid three months, I learned on this, practicing almost daily, making it well over halfway through Alfred's Adult Course book 1. Then on June 1st I got a Yamaha digital piano.

Since then, for five weeks, I have practiced near daily (I think I missed 2 days in June) and let me tell you, it is totally different...at least to me. I had to go back and re-learn the things I thought I had mastered on the keyboard, not to mention that I had to figure out the pedal thing, which is going to take some time. I had issues with my fingers kind of hitting the side of the keys, and just having to learn how to actually press the keys down, because it's harder than on a non-weighted keyboard. In short - it's different and you will have to take steps back to re-learn things.

I do think I would have been much better served to start out on a digital piano rather than a non-weighted keyboard...but...if I had let that hold me back initially, I would not have discovered that I love it.

[jaiesh_bhai]

Hey everybody! Thanks for all your replies and tips! I read them all. So far I have started by getting used to the keys by playing some of the scales and also learning the chords. I still need to go find some of the books you guys suggested from the library. In the meantime I found a decent youtube teacher. If any of you are also starting or are very new to piano I would recommend searching for the user "Lypur" on youtube, his videos are kind of helpful. So I might follow through all of them. If anyone thinks this is not a good idea please let me know why. haha maybe Lypur secretly is no good at teaching...well so far he seems very good at it. (Thanks butterfly79 for reminding me to search on youtube.  )

So I might just follow the lessons before I try to play an actual piece of music.

Yes, as you will not be able to practice the subtleties of touch and dynamics. 

Try searching for used pianos.  A lot of them are quite affordable.

You may also wish to seek out an alternate practice location with an acoustic piano.

I guess I'll have to find an alternative location to practice too. So most of the time I'll practice on mine. Just to keep in mind that I have to learn touch and dynamics I'll try on occasion to go over to my friend's house and use his touch sensitive keyboard.

By the way...I searched for Bernhard...and I found a bunch of posts discussing the mysterious nature of "Bernhard". His whereabouts and so on...he seems to be very important on pianostreet forum's so I will keep searching.

A1: No, an interior keyboard will let you learn whatever you need on that keyboard but understand that transferring abilities learned to another instrument may be damn near impossible.

Do you think practicing a little on both might help the impossibility even slightly?

A4:  Fluidity is a result of repeated movement which initiates a neurological and physiological change. In the beginning, it's safest to choose movements that are the easiest to do because it requires little accommodation of your muscles and nerves.  In other words, you need to learn to use what you currently have.  If your muscles are burning, you are probably doing something wrong.

I have a very bad tendinitis problem on my left arm since I was born. So at least three times a week my elbow and arm will flare up in tons of pain!  I am supposed to use prescribed Vicodin for it, however I chose not to. Anyways the relevance of this random fact is...I heard that piano can cause tendinitis 

You are right though they are slowly getting used to it. I am way better off then I was couple of days ago.

 For the first solid three months, I learned on this, practicing almost daily, making it well over halfway through Alfred's Adult Course book 1. Then on June 1st I got a Yamaha digital piano.


I do think I would have been much better served to start out on a digital piano rather than a non-weighted keyboard...but...if I had let that hold me back initially, I would not have discovered that I love it.

Wow I have that book too! I might go through it if the videos on youtube don't suffice. I also believe the starting on this crappy keyboard is some what of a step forward. I mean I have to start somewhere or I won't start at all.

Anyways I appreciate all the replies! I hope this helps other beginners too.

Current Average Practice per Day: 1 hour.

(^ That will start to go up as I get obsessed) 

[butterfly79]

I think it's great that you are trying to learn the piano. We don't all have access to a piano right away and some can't afford a teacher but if you really want it, you will do it!

I have been practicing on a regular keyboard and I have some issues transferring to a piano at my lessons but I think a keyboard is fine at the beginning but not for long. That being said, I would rather see someone start learning on a keyboard then procrastinate learning for yrs to come until they can afford a piano.

As for youtube, hey to be honest it's better than nothing. You can self teach from books but seeing some things is better than just reading it.

As for tendinitis, learn to relax before playing, a tense body will lead to more injuries. If you are hurting one day, play less with the arm that has issues so you don't overdue it.

[naivewriter]

well, a possible book that could help with your 'rigid' hands would be Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist. It's a set of three books with 20 exercises per book. lol, im actually reading the following info right off of the inner cover: "For the aquirement of Agility, Independence, Strength, and Perfect Eveness in the Fingers as well as the Suppleness of the wrist." At least, this is what my old teacher asked me to work on. I actually bought the 1st book off of eBay for like, $4. Idk, this is just a suggestion.

[jaiesh_bhai]

Hey Everyone, Thanks again. Sorry I didn't post anything for a while. I had to go out of town. Anyway let's continue on to what is important, Piano. I have been practicing to get my arm, wrist, fingers, and well most of my body to relax while I practice. I can say that I have improved a lot since the last time I have posted to this thread. I am more confident in my ability to learn and even play compositions in the future. As we know practice makes perfect, and I have a lot of practice to do ahead of me.

Things that I have learned/gained:

• Speed has increased. So has my finger dexterity on the keyboard. I try to control the pressure I exert from my fingers, so in the future I am able to learn dynamics a bit faster (hopefully).
• I am familiar with the name of notes and its keys.   My ability to read sheet music is improving also.
• I am more relaxed and tendinitis does not bother me while I play the keyboard. (Thanks for the tip Butterfly79!)

What I am learning currently:

• I am memorizing all the scales by using the "circle of fifths" chart. I am doing this while playing the scales on the keyboard.

Thoughts:

• Are scales just used so on sheet music it is less messy compared to noting all the sharps and flats? Or is there another much more important role that I am overlooking?
• Right now my goal seems to be getting a good grasp on the music theory behind Piano. Once I am confident that I can start practicing some compositions and financially sound, I will be upgrading to a better electric piano. Those 600+ dollar ones (I don't know if they have a more distinguished name...  )

Alright well thanks to everyone who takes an interest. I appreciate the replies.

[jaiesh_bhai]

I have actually started to learn a piece. Schumann's op.68 no.16. It's kind of an easy simple piece compared to all the others that I have seen. Any tips? Please feel free to reply with your opinions I really appreciate it.

[csharp_minor]

I’ve been reading bits of this topic...Well-done in starting to learn piano.

I have actually started to learn a piece. Schumann's op.68 no.16.

That’s impressive that you’re tackling a grade 4 piece already! It starts off easy but becomes more difficult as it progresses as you will need to deal with changing hand position to play the chords quite quickly and abruptly, and that might be difficult for a new beginner. It’s also it’s a piece that can do with pedal use. At the start of the piece put a slight emphasis on the first G of the beginning phrase and whenever it appears again. This piece is about a little girl whos pet bird has died .

If you find it’s too hard at the moment, give it a rest and try other pieces from Op 68 (Album for the young) there are some easy pieces at the beginning of the book like Little tune and Humming song. Classic books like this are in my opinion nicer then method books, although they are a benefit for technique and studies.

I don’t want to put you off if you want to give a piece ago then go for it! I often play pieces that are hard for me, and my teacher sets me them! I think it’s best to play the music you really want to even if it’s difficult. But remember if it’s too hard you can always go back to it and learn it latter when you have the confidence and new skills, I have often done that.

Another tip for learning a piece; always try out the fingering suggestions written on the score, if it doesn’t work for you then change it and then get your teachers advice, and always keep the same fingering.

Try Burgmullers Op 100 too

[jaiesh_bhai]

Thanks alot csharp! Yeah I will give it a chance even though it's out of my skill level. Might as well it can't hurt. If I can't quite do it right now I will come back sooner or later. Plus I kind of liked it. Well thanks for the tips I will incorporate them in..just that pedal use isn't available at the moment. I will post how it goes