André Jolivet

[richard black]

I've just this afternoon been playing some Jolivet - the accompaniment (arranged, of course) to his trumpet concertino. Does anyone here 'get' Jolivet'? To me it seems some of the worst music I've encountered in a very long time - very little to say but makes life appallingly difficult for performers and listeners alike trying to say it. Before I add him to the (very short) list of composers I won't play at any price, I just thought I'd ask....

[birba]

I know that piece.  They use it a lot in orchestral auditions.  I hate it.

[ramseytheii]

I think he also has a major flute/orchestra work called Chant de Linos or something, also terrible... the thing with composers like him is that they write substantial works for instrumentalists, to beef up the repertoire; it is the pianists who get stuck playing it... what else is a trumpeter going to play?  Where does the ambitious flautist turn when he is sick of Mozart concerti?  This is a very specific niche, and a lot of wind players, in their desire to have new and challenging works, will ignore musical deficiencies, in my opinion.

Walter Ramsey

[furtwaengler]

I have to laugh at this entire thread, because I've played with trumpet players my whole life. I don't think I've met one who has enjoyed playing Jolivet, but they play it, and we pianists receive the full chamber scores...what are we to do with this? On the spot reductions, and ugh.

At least Ibert and Franciax (ever played the Flower Clock?) are arranged in semi reductions!

Bah! Good thread.

[richard black]

Thanks, people! This is where the internet is good at making one feel less lonely!

[retrouvailles]

There are far better pieces that Jolivet composed than the Trumpet Concertino (for one, his other trumpet concertante work). Also, the Chant de Linos sounds much better in the version for flute and piano. I won't say it's easy, but it is a nice piece. He also has some piano works which are quite interesting, such as his Cinq Danses Rituelles, which don't seem as awkward as his other works in terms of both writing and the music. I think his bad rap here will be appeased if you just go listen to some of his better works, rather than the ones everyone seems to hate on. His piano concerto, if you can find a copy of it, is also a very good piece.

[lontano]

There are far better pieces that Jolivet composed than the Trumpet Concertino (for one, his other trumpet concertante work). Also, the Chant de Linos sounds much better in the version for flute and piano. I won't say it's easy, but it is a nice piece. He also has some piano works which are quite interesting, such as his Cinq Danses Rituelles, which don't seem as awkward as his other works in terms of both writing and the music. I think his bad rap here will be appeased if you just go listen to some of his better works, rather than the ones everyone seems to hate on. His piano concerto, if you can find a copy of it, is also a very good piece.

At one time (many years ago) I had a couple of LPs of Jolivet trumpet concerti (and similar pieces) and I remember liking at least some of it and don't remember hating any of it. Now in a piano/trumpet arr. I imagine there could be some nasty problems to overcome. The only Jolivet work I currently have and know fairly well is his Trumpet Concerto #2. It's a brief work and interesting. I recall a concerto for Ondes Martenot and orchestra and concerto for trumpet, piano, and orchestra that's also fun to listen to (in my opinion).

Can anyone compare any of the works I've mentioned with the Trumpet Concertino that started this thread?

Marius Constant wrote some interesting mid-20th century French music I tend to associate stylistically with Jolivet (although probably best known for writing the original opening theme music for the Rod Serling's "The Twilight Zone").

L.

[birba]

I have to laugh at this entire thread, because I've played with trumpet players my whole life. I don't think I've met one who has enjoyed playing Jolivet, but they play it, and we pianists receive the full chamber scores...what are we to do with this? On the spot reductions, and ugh.

At least Ibert and Franciax (ever played the Flower Clock?) are arranged in semi reductions!

Bah! Good thread.

Maybe he wrote more than one concerto.  I've always been given the reduction for piano.
If you read between the lines of those, here, who enjoy his music, you get the gist:
"interesting", "fun", "nice", "very good" - terms hardly used with enthusiasm...
Now, I'd really like to get my hands on the twilight zone theme and make an arrangement!

[kitty on the keys]

Yeah.....I thought I had missed the boat with this composer. As a lover of flute music....I never found this piece 'exciting' to listen to. So many demands on both performers.....and who will win at the end of the Chant di Linos...... I like the Liberman flute pieces over this anyday.

Kitty on the Keys

[thorn]

I love the Chant de Linos. I have played both parts; it's one of those pieces that you either love or hate and if you hate it there's no point even attempting to learn it because it takes a LOT of work.

The only other Jolivet I have come across is the piano concerto, which I think is awful. It makes me feel ill just remembering hearing it...