Extremely frustrated. Please help, I fail at piano

[jacobrudduck]

I don't quite know how to word this, but let me start by saying I am extremely frustrated at the moment.

Lately I have been suffering from long periods of "blockage", both mental and physical it seems, where every time I attempt to play the piano, all of my "technique" (it's debatable whether I have any) just goes flying out the window.

I mess up technically, musically fails to come through, I mess up phrasing, pedaling etc - Before long, I end up frustrated and stressed, kick the piano and myself and walk away cursing.

I am 17. I first started getting interested in piano around the age of 13, but could only afford a crappy electric keyboard to play on, until last Christmas when I bought myself a full size digital (Casio CDP100). Decent model, but lately I'm getting pissed off with it's sound and touch quality.

I've only had 1 teacher for a while in secondary school, but I don't want one now because they confuse me, pressure me and I play terribly around them. Plus I just can't afford one. I can read music a little, but no where near enough to sight read. I learn by ear and Synthesia to read the notes (cheating I know, a music teacher wouldn't be impressed)

As you can see, I've had a pretty erratic learning process, and now I am starting to think whether I have learnt completely the wrong way, and it can't be undone. 

I don't see why, but I seem to have lost my touch. I don't wish to be a professional concert pianist or anything, but it is just SO frustrating when I spend many hours of the day listening to classical music, and I have so much music bottled up inside me and I can't get it out the way I want it to...

What AM I doing wrong exactly? I used to think I had a talent for piano, but now I think otherwise. I'm never satisfied with ANYTHING I play anymore. 

Is there anything I can do to get past this? Is it normal for learners to go through this? If so, what can I do about it?

I think I better give you some examples of my piano playing, so you can judge for yourself:

  (Fur Elise)

Sorry they are so cliche, I know people on here always go on about Rachmaninoff and the likes, but I'm no child prodigy, so...

I'm learning Clair De Lune at the moment. Or rather, I were - I can't seem to make the theme sing anymore, it comes out sounding very flat...

 

Please can anybody out there help me? Thank you for reading this mess 

[nanabush]

Your videos are good!  The same frustration happens to a lot of us, and sometimes that can be due to over practicing the same thing until you are exhausted.  Musicality and phrasing are the kinds of things that you will gradually get better at - try working on some scales and arpeggios and making them sound as musical as possible.  Claire de Lune's melodies aren't hard to pick out, but they can easily be swamped by the accompaniment (in the part with the arpeggios for example).

Just take your time with stuff you learn; making a tough piece sound musical is usually a huge puzzle that will make you kick your piano - the same thing happened to me when I first learned "Fille aux Cheveux de Lin".

Keep posting videos on youtube though - it kind of gives a sense of motivation to learn more stuff/new stuff, and you might get some requests for songs if people like coming back to watch your stuff.

---
This is a bit of a mess of a reply too; don't underestimate scales and technical work, because you can easily make a C major formula pattern sound like a piece of music with some added details  ... and make sure you don't pick things that are too tough for you.  That will be a musical disaster.  People who try to force Chopin Etudes down (there are TONS on youtube), play them extremely sloppy and with zero regard for any dynamics.  Just make sure you are playing pieces in a gradual way, slowly finding newer difficulties to play.  Debussy's 'Arabesques' are good pieces around the difficulty of Claire de Lune, and he has a ton of Preludes that are awesome.  They also have some weird enough harmonies that you'll probably force yourself to have to read music to learn them. 

[oxy60]

Piano was not my first instrument. I started on Clarinet but never became better than playing Sousa marches in a band. When I started piano I experienced the same frustrations as the poster and let it go to the back burner (maintaining lessons and practice at a low level of progress) while I tried other instruments. I finally landed on Tuba because it was needed to fill out a brass ensemble and it was an easy switch from Trombone/Baritone which I couldn't really master. With persistence I became better than I ever was on Clarinet and able to play at symphonic level. Then piano (and organ) attracted me back mostly because Tuba was not a solo instrument and once again necessity and (organ) jobs called. To the poster, don't give up. Put piano on the back burner if needed but keep it going.  Years from now you will be glad you did!

[jacobrudduck]

nanabush, thank you   I think you are right: it all bottles down to a combination of frustration and over practising the same thing. Usually I make myself practice a piece over and over again in an attempt to "master " it until I am happy with it (which is pretty much never, so you can see the problem.) I need to learn when to leave a piece be and move on...

I actually had quite a nice episode just now. I sat down at the piano with a more relaxed attitude than before. I told myself not to get worked up over the little things, and that it will come with time...

I tried out a minute or so of a new piece (

) and this time I actually enjoyed playing. I think I just need to relax and stop getting so stressed over imperfection I guess. I think it's a common thing between pianists though, so I'll be glad if it isn't just me who gets this...

And yeah, I might be aiming to high at this stage. I'm not into Chopin Etudes and the likes, as I find them boring (heh, just watch me get flamed on that   ) but even with more simple music I'm too much of a perfectionist, I pick holes in every bit of the performance.

But overall I guess that is my problem. I'm a suffering, self-loathing perfectionist :p I just need to ignore that little voice in the back of my head telling me "eugh, that was a mess. You suck!"

As for scales and stuff, yeah I usually mess around with them for a bit at the start and end of a session. When I'm on top form, my hands are rather dexterous, fast and agile. But I take from your reply that it is normal to have an "off day" once in a while?

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated

[nanabush]

Ya for sure, everyone gets an off day.

The Amelie piece is a great choice!  It's a nice sounding piece, not too long, and it really makes you have to think for the left hand (even though it repeats throughout).  I've seen some other stuff by Yann Tiersen, and Yiruma, and they have a pretty good range of piano stuff that you'd be interested in.  For sure look up more stuff like this, it'll keep you wanting to play the piano 

[i_am_joey_jo]

I would suggest lowering your chair.  The keyboard should be parallel with your elbows.  In the video you seem to be sitting way to high and so you are playing with "high-knuckles."  They should be more flat, this may be affecting your playing quite a bit more than you know.

[jacobrudduck]

Joey, yeah I noticed that after I watched it back, so I tried lowering it - I just need to "standardize" my position, it's REALLY annoying when I come back to my piano in the morning and find some idiot has been spinning it round and round and mucked up the height, and it's such an art to get it just right.

It always bugs me when I'm playing, I'm always thinking "wait, is my position correct? If I never get my position correct it's gonna f*ck me up for life..." 

[pianissimo123]

Ha!  That's funny. I'm sure allot of us have wanted to kick a piano across the room at one time
or another. I watched your videos and you sound like you have some real potential. Some of the other members posted some pretty good suggestions here. I think I may understand the source of your frustrations. I may be able to provide you with some practical suggestions if you are interested. Notify me if you still find you are having trouble. Hope this helped.

[jacobrudduck]

Feel much better today, I took everybody's advice on board, adjusted my piano stool at the right height, and went straight into learning the Amelie piece...

I think I've been doing it wrong the whole time: usually, I "warm" up for about 10-15 minutes by playing some scales and a couple of the pieces I already know, before going on to learn a new piece.

However I read elsewhere yesterday that this is completely counterproductive, as the mind is more concentrated in the those first 15 minutes or so at the start of the session, and that is when it takes all the information in...

So it would be much better for me to jump straight into learning new material at the start of the session. I did this today, and I'm already half way through the Amelie piece. I'll make sure to post it on Youtube when I've finished it :p

Thankfully, it seems that I WILL be able to get over these "off" periods after all. Thanks for all your help, guys. Much appreciated

[faulty_damper]

I agree with comments about your seat height.  The reason why a lower position is better is because it is more ergonomically/mechanically effective for playing the piano.  The correct seat height may not be the same for every piece you play, however.  So it's important to find the most adaptive height that allows your entire body to be engaged with the piece you're playing.

Also, you put too much effort into each depress of the keys so each note receives an accent.  As a result, the melodies are not smooth and connected.  To counter this habit, use the LEAST amount of effort to achieve the sound you want.  You'll find that you save an incredible amount of energy by learning to do this and has the added benefit of sounding more musical.

[benjaminpiano]

just practice more.  and when you practice, be smart about it.  Don't waist time playing stuff that you know is to hard.  Go slow. 

Also, to work on technique just play scales.  Just play scales and then you will be-able to play anything

[jacobrudduck]

faulty damper, on your second point:

Really? Hmmm, never noticed that actually, that's interesting you say that because I always thought I did legato quite well =/

 I'll definitely be more aware of it next time though, thanks a lot

[faulty_damper]

No, it's not legato at all.  To be smooth the beginning note will take you to the last note in a passage.  This description may be very vague.  Understand that legato does not mean to play smoothly but means that it should sound smooth.

The way you are currently playing each note in a passage is accented.  Get rid of the accents and it should help quite a lot.

[stringoverstrung]

faulty damper, on your second point:

Really? Hmmm, never noticed that actually, that's interesting you say that because I always thought I did legato quite well =/

 I'll definitely be more aware of it next time though, thanks a lot

I think Faulty damper is right. Also check the position of your hand because i think i can see the last joint of your fourth finger collapsing many times in the fur elise. Check it out also keeping faulty dampers suggestion in mind!

Keep on going it will be allright!!

[stringoverstrung]

Joey, yeah I noticed that after I watched it back, so I tried lowering it - I just need to "standardize" my position, it's REALLY annoying when I come back to my piano in the morning and find some idiot has been spinning it round and round and mucked up the height, and it's such an art to get it just right.

It always bugs me when I'm playing, I'm always thinking "wait, is my position correct? If I never get my position correct it's gonna f*ck me up for life..." 

Measure it. from the ground ant from the bench to the piano.

[csindell]

Sorry you are so frustrated.  I have returned to piano also and have found the private lesson aspect frustrating also.  There is so much material available to teach yourself and no performance pressure and less expense.  However, I think you are surfing over the ocean of great music and never going deep by relying on your ear.  Don't give up on playing by ear, but if you resolve to go deep and really learn to read, learn the theory, learn the scales, you have a lifetime of happiness ahead.  Playing the piano is hard!  We don't hear all the mistakes and witness all the frustration of professional piano players.  You are very young and obviously love music very much.  You can spend a lifetime developing your passion. I have no professional hopes, I just love to play and I torture myself trying to play things much to hard for me; I play too fast, I make mistakes, I am working on at least 50 different pieces and sometimes can't resist just sight reading pieces from my mom's old music.  I love classical, jazz, blues, Gershwin! Be patient, know that the process is slow, painful, and wonderful.  Go slow, play frequently, learn to read well, and enjoy yourself.  I am 56.  I would give anything to be a frustrated 17 year old with all that delicious time to improve.  Imagine how much better you'll be by the time you are my age!

[cooledit]

My dear fellow musician.

If music was easy and practice not needed, nobody would appreciate it very much.
We all get the up's and down's when we practice/perform or show of our little talent given.

unfortunately there is only a few prodigy people around us and I am not one of those.
I will need to practice a lot. By that said you and I have the same thing in common a big passion for music listen as well as creating it. Sometimes you will need to lower your perfectionism and be ok with playing faults with the music. Sometimes pick very easy pieces and perform them as well as the hard ones.

Yes I do think you have a good ear and good feel for the music you have played. i don't have the courage I don't play that well to put things on youtube. But what I think could benefit you is a music partner a singer or other instruments. Properly best with a singer as you will need to follow them rhythmically and that would help you a lot. Another thing from my own experience is some kind of body exercise walking/swimming something you like it will get your body into small stress as well as getting the mind occupied with something else, then when you do your music you will feel a relief no stress.

I hope you can use this to your benefit.
Cooledit

[rmbarbosa]

To "feel" what´s legato, put your fingers in your own arm and "play" like if your arm was the keyboard. When you touch your arm with a finger, the next finger must be "prepared" to play wich means that it must be touching you arm also. In legato you are feeling your fingers allways in touch with your arm (=keyboard), you see? Sorry for my uggly English that doesnt allow me to explain better
But you have a good potential. Like Obama: Yes, you can
The best to you
Rui

[oxy60]

Wouldn't a better explanation be that it's all about the length of silence between the notes. More silence equals more staccato. No silence equals legato. Of course it's on a sliding scale. Taking "Pictures" as an example, the opening solo right hand should have no silence between the notes, depicting a slow walk discovering the gallery. To continue the feeling when both hands start to play, we pedal (lift the dampers) to remove the silence between the jumps.

[faulty_damper]

Legato is not about the lack of silence between notes; it is about the quality of the connected notes.  In the video recordings, it is clear that all the notes are connected but they are not legato; each note has a slight accent.

[oxy60]

But isn't that slight accent the very nature of a piano? Each note starts with a hit of a string and then the loudness decreases.

[scottmcc]

the development of an excellent legato touch is something which takes a great many years, and something which even the best professionals are constantly striving to improve.

legato literally means "linked" or "joined."  in practical terms, it means more than just that the notes run together, with no space between, but rather that they feel connected to each other, as if they represent the action of one singer out of an entire chorus.  this is often exceptionally difficult to achieve, especially in polyphonic works--one voice is easy to make sound distinctly, but 4 is not!  listen to one of the greats such as wilhelm kempff (for example any of his brahms or schumann), or sviatoslav richter (especially his bach) for an example of excellent legato touch.

anyway, good luck.  nobody said this was easy.

[faulty_damper]

But isn't that slight accent the very nature of a piano? Each note starts with a hit of a string and then the loudness decreases.

Technically, you are correct.  There is a huge dynamic spike that occurs just milliseconds after the hammer strikes the strings that drops immediately.  It gradually decrease to nothing over a long period of many, many seconds.

However, in a musical context that huge dynamic spike is not perceived.  In fact, most people are not even aware of just how large the spike is because it is so short in duration.  The rest of the tone generated is the one we do perceive, the one that lasts for a long time relative to the spike.

In legato playing, dynamic spikes are not equal.  Each successive note either increases or decreases in dynamics; they are staggered.  This way the perceived tone has a flow that either increases or decreases; it has a connected quality.  The higher the pitch, the shorter the tone for a given dynamic level.  This is why you crescendo as you ascend a scale or melody and decrescendo as you descend; you need the note to be heard and not 'swallowed' by the previous note.

When successive spikes are equal, non legato playing, we become aware of the spikes because they sound the same each time.  The dynamics are not staggered and the succeeding note can be swallowed by the previous note thus making the tone slightly less noticeable and the spike more noticeable, hence its percussive quality.

N.B.  Non legato does not mean staccato.  They are, in fact, connected.  In the video, the quality of the sound of the melodies are non legato: successive spikes are equal in dynamics.

[pjmck]

I don't quite know how to word this, but let me start by saying I am extremely frustrated at the moment.

Lately I have been suffering from long periods of "blockage", both mental and physical it seems, where every time I attempt to play the piano, all of my "technique" (it's debatable whether I have any) just goes flying out the window.

I mess up technically, musically fails to come through, I mess up phrasing, pedaling etc - Before long, I end up frustrated and stressed, kick the piano and myself and walk away cursing.

I am 17. I first started getting interested in piano around the age of 13, but could only afford a crappy electric keyboard to play on, until last Christmas when I bought myself a full size digital (Casio CDP100). Decent model, but lately I'm getting pissed off with it's sound and touch quality.

I've only had 1 teacher for a while in secondary school, but I don't want one now because they confuse me, pressure me and I play terribly around them. Plus I just can't afford one. I can read music a little, but no where near enough to sight read. I learn by ear and Synthesia to read the notes (cheating I know, a music teacher wouldn't be impressed)

As you can see, I've had a pretty erratic learning process, and now I am starting to think whether I have learnt completely the wrong way, and it can't be undone. 

I don't see why, but I seem to have lost my touch. I don't wish to be a professional concert pianist or anything, but it is just SO frustrating when I spend many hours of the day listening to classical music, and I have so much music bottled up inside me and I can't get it out the way I want it to...

What AM I doing wrong exactly? I used to think I had a talent for piano, but now I think otherwise. I'm never satisfied with ANYTHING I play anymore. 

Is there anything I can do to get past this? Is it normal for learners to go through this? If so, what can I do about it?

I think I better give you some examples of my piano playing, so you can judge for yourself:

  (Fur Elise)

Sorry they are so cliche, I know people on here always go on about Rachmaninoff and the likes, but I'm no child prodigy, so...

I'm learning Clair De Lune at the moment. Or rather, I were - I can't seem to make the theme sing anymore, it comes out sounding very flat...

 

Please can anybody out there help me? Thank you for reading this mess 

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you are a good pianist. You are still a kid. I wish that I played half as well when I was 17. The fact is that, at the age of 55, I wish that I played as well!!
I do play piano, but electric bass is my primary instrument.
I know what it's like to be frustrated. Most of the musicians that I perform with are what I call "musically illiterate." Many don't even know how to read music.
Piano teachers often turn out players who can make great music, have nice playing technique and rapid reading skills... but totally lack the ability to improvise even at the beginner level.
If you know your theory & harmony, you should be on your way to being a greater musician than you are already. 

[jacobrudduck]

Hey everyone 

Sorry I've been gone for a while, haven't been ignoring you, just been a tad busy with certain non-piano related stuff. 

I've been reading through all of your posts - you may not think so but they have helped me out a lot! I've taken on your advice, both technical and mental, and I feel much more confident in my playing now, no more anger and frustration, hehe...

I've just got to develop a good practice routine, think positively and have fun with it, I see now more than ever that that is the most important part!

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated