Changing fingering on the same key

[mplim]

There is one thing I don't understand about fingering, or the benefit of doing it. And that is the changing of the fingers, if the same key is played after each other. Can anybody explain why this should be done?
Thanks.

[birba]

Believe it or not, sometimes I ask myself the same question.  Sometimes I think it's just a question of principal.  If I'm playing a slow melody and there's a repeated note, I just THINK it might be more legato.  Which is a lot of hogwash.  If it's fast, of course, it might be easier to change fingers.  For fast repeated notes I like to use 1-2-1-2-1-2.  NOT 4-3-2-1, which lots of pianists swear by.  (there is an exception to this with the famous Scarlatti repeated note sonata.)  but, for example, the Beethoven "pastoral" sonata.  There's absolutely no need to change fingers in the repeated "d" in the left hand.  In fact, with the big name pianos that have that "doppio scappamento", you can get a better legato using the same finger.
At any rate, I find fingering such a personal question.  Every hand, and lengths of fingers are different.  You have to experiment what's best for you.
I'm finding the older I get, the more I find hard-fast rules a waste of time.

[mplim]

Thanks for your reply, I feel so relieved. What you wrote, that is exactly what I do myself. Now I don't feel so stupid anymore for doing it my own way.
Thanks again!

[alessandro]

Maybe this answer will spoil a little bit the atmosphere - I rather think that there is often a difference between playing a same note with the same finger or not.  Fingering is of course subjective, that's one thing.  And of course, we're talking of modern piano's with "doppio scappamento".   In my case, my upright never has the same easiness in mechanical touch than a decent grand, that is certainly the case for repeated notes, but also for playing ppp.   I'm very fond of Chopin, and often still surprised of what the fingering in his scores tell about the piece (isn't it so, that some fingering can tell something about the importance of certain notes and that in doing-so tell something about the context ? There must be a lot of more experienced people here on this forum that can tell nicely interesting things on the matter.  
I sure think it could be a trap (I'm not saying that you are trapped) to think that playing a serie of same notes with the same finger is kind of 'easy'.

Two examples that come to my mind and that illustrate both views is Chopin Valse 64/2 starting in bar 13.  I understand, feel fully, though not easy to explain why, one should switch between finger 3 and 2 for playing this succesive pairs of repeated notes.   (I begin to realise it could easily take a whole book to explain why, this is really something to explain standing at the "klavier").  Chopin is for me a genius of the understanding of the mechanism of the hand.   For the right hand, the melody, he gives the index (2) the main role.  The pivoting character, the balance, the "just", the emperor.   The thumb is really what he is, glad that he's there of course, power, more like a king, in the same way, sorry if that is a bit offensive, but sometimes it's as if the thumb is quantité négligable.  And what to say of the little finger ! Can you imagine playing that high "sol" in bar 43 of the nocturne opus posthume in cis-moll (KK IV n° 16) with another finger than the little one.  I can't.  
Another example, in the same style though not "same notes" is Nocturne opus 37 n° 1, bar 6.  It could be natural to use for "si-la-sol" three different fingers.   But I do understand fully the choice of finger 3-3-3; the most elegant way to give the music the insistance, with just enough non-legato, just enough rough air between the keys, it sounds a little more rude and square.

Thanks for your reply, I feel so relieved. What you wrote, that is exactly what I do myself. Now I don't feel so stupid anymore for doing it my own way.
Thanks again!

Feel relieved, dear mplim ! Your fingering is your fingering, as long as it's sounds great.   In fingering there is a whole story to discover, a whole comfortness to gain, a whole understanding of how "sentences" can sound, how stories can be told.  There is I think always a difference to be discovered between 2-2-2 and 2-3-2.   At least in Chopin, there is.  I'm not sure it's the same for John Cage or Wim Mertens, but there is often a choice to make, that is for me part of the research and part of the fun of playing: these choices that one must make.   Maybe not forever.

Oh yes, there is a succession of three same notes, Chopin Nocturne Opus 72 n° 1, bar 35, and I have now, after two years since I started working on that piece, not found a satisfying way to play the triplet.   What is the meaning of this triplet ?  I'm sure I'm not the only one who is puzzled by this triplet.   One could easily say, well come on man, chill, it's just Chopin "he was just a little bit uninspired, and found nothing better than to put a triplet at that place", just play it, no matter how etcetera.   No, I like this piece and I hope it will make some sense one day.  

Again, I'm sure there is someone that can explain things way better than I did.  

Forgive me my handicapped English.

Kindly

[lostinidlewonder]

If the single note is repeated very fast, such as Ravels opening of Scarbo you simply must use different fingers or the tension will overwhelm you. If the repeated note is slow and controlled with a pedal then it doesn't really matter what fingers you use so long it remains in context (fingering/musically) with whatever else you must play (for instance Chopin Raindrop prelude). You will almost always find that the tension in your hand in relieved and control is increased of repeated notes if we use different fingers. For developing pianists however it might seem like it is making the playing more complicated but it is only until you understand technique more completely that it will make much more sense in an technical efficiency and conservation of energy standpoint.

[mplim]

Thanks for all replies. I'm not a very good piano player, not really advanced. But I've noticed, that sometimes I change fingers and sometimes not. Don't ask me why, I myself don't "understand" it, I just do it to make the piece sounds better to my own hearing, so it is very subjective. For fast repeated notes, I prefer to use 2323, and not 4321, which I find so very difficult. I do not always follow the scores. By the way, the fingering in the scores differs, depending on who has written the scores. Sometimes there is no fingering at all. Which in my case causes a lot of confusion. Why can it be so different? Which written scores must I follow exactly and which not. That's the reason why I have to find this out myself first before I start studying a piece. I have troubles with my thumb and my pinky. For instance in some pieces, a very important note, which needs to be accentuated (see Chopin Waltz op69 no2, bar 48), is instructed to use the pink. In my case, I don't have enough power in my pink. So I have to change the fingering especially for 1 bar and therefor the following bars, to make it sounds better. In some other pieces I'm satisfied with the written fingering. And in other pieces I don't see any benefit at all in changing fingers (Sonate Mozart K545 bar 13 Left Hand). The same piece, Rondo, what is the use of changing fingers? To stay with the same piece, the thriller in the 1th movement bar 4, I can see the benefit in changing fingers 232132 for the thriller instead of 232121. These are only a few examples.

Maybe all this sounds very dumb and unprofessional.

By the way, what does "doppio scappamento" means? I play a baby grand, for some better information.

Thanks for all the replies. Every suggestion is welcome. I can only learn from it.

[birba]

I think you're going about it the right way.  It's always good to start studying a piece with the fingering that will carry you through to the completion of the piece.  Sometimes, though, as you acquire the speed, you will find a certain fingering doesn't serve your purpose.  When I'm learning a new piece and it's fast, I try to foresee what fingering will be best suited to that speed.  Always using the same fingering you've started with helps you to learn the piece faster.
Every edition has different fingering according to the editor.  Most composers are very sparse with their fingering.  Edwin Fisher always has excellent fingering suggestions in his editions.
Another thing.  Sometimes a fingering, suggested by an editor, that may seem strange at first, might just be the right answer.  You have to experiment with it.
I forget what they call it in english.  Doppio scappamento is a mecchanism in most grand pianos where you can repeat the same note without fully releasing the key.  In other words, after you've played the key, leaving your finger connected to the key you come back up, but not all the ways and you can repeat the note.    Am I making any sense?  It sounds like you're holding the pedal down as you repeat the same note.  For example in Beethoven's op. 110 in the slow movement, the famous "bebung" sound is helped by this mecchanism.
Doppio scappamento :  double escape.  Someone help me please!