What's the point?

[Bob]

I was wondering about this today. 

The point of practicing and everything.

The only things I'm coming up with are for your own personal enjoyment and to provide live music. 

Or for new music I suppose.

If it's for a recording, someone else has probably already made the definitive recording.  Or several someones.  Someones who are probably genius, prodigies from the womb, who spent their lives perfecting the piece you'll play.

And considering the classical music market and the internet now, there's not much to be made off selling recordings.

Or for people who are wired up and have a need to make music. 

Or as a supplement to teaching -- Can't teach if you don't perform, that idea.    Or can't perform if you don't teach too.  Performing would be more for enjoyment or personal drive, etc. 

Just thinking out loud....

[m19834]

The last two months, and *especially* the last one month, have been a very crazy time in my life, and probably one of the most challenging I have ever had, actually.  I have thought about stuff in your post a lot throughout my piano and music career, but it's been in this last month especially that I have seen more answers than ever before.  Surprisingly enough, thoughout this challenging time, it's been my students who have been some of the most kind and supportive souls in my life.  I feel as though I am developing relationships with my students that I will keep in some form for the rest of my life (with some of them).  I think that's pretty cool.

Aside from that though, the most direct answer to your question is simply because life demands it.  There is something about life and living that just wouldn't be the same without music, and it's as though life itself demands that there is music in the world, and a person feeling the urge to play and practice and get better is simply answering that call.  And even though not everybody will appreciate what you do (or what any individual does), there are those individuals out there whose lives you will touch in ways that nobody else can.  It takes a lot of guts to share with others though, and to walk a path where you are willing to put everything you can into an endeavor that seems humanly pointless.  It takes actual love.

[ted]

Do you know, until I read this thread I don't think I ever considered asking myself the question "What is the point ?". Unlike Karli, I have not thought about it at all. Since I was tiny, playing the piano, listening to music in general, and in mature years creating it, have been such unconditionally transporting, ecstatic experiences that the question honestly never occurred to me. Were I the type of person who judges himself and his art by external references and comparisons, had I had to make a living from music, had I not been a musical outsider who creates outsider art, were I seriously sensitive to praise and criticism ...... then those conditions might have caused me to ask such a question.

The only things I'm coming up with are for your own personal enjoyment and to provide live music.  

Nothing wrong with those points, it seems to me.

Or for new music I suppose.

An even better point.

If it's for a recording, someone else has probably already made the definitive recording.  Or several someones.  Someones who are probably genius, prodigies from the womb, who spent their lives perfecting the piece you'll play.

I once had a wonderful, eccentric friend, alas now long dead, who unexpectedly provided a brilliant riposte to this very sentiment while attempting to argue its truth.

"In the future, Ted, people will be able to communicate directly mind to mind with scientific apparatus. I shall be able to tune in on your mind at the instrument and know what you are feeling; I shall be able to actually experience your musical mind as it unfolds. Come to think of it I wouldn't  even bother with the likes of you. You're just small fry. I would be able to tune in to Horowitz, Rubinstein, anybody." He paused and frowned for a long time."But how do I know, how do I really know that your mental state with your second or third rate performance, your second or third rate mind, is not more enjoyable, more ecstatic to you than a first rate performance is to a first rate mind ?"

The same point was made by Aldous Huxley in several places in his novels, but my friend Paul's framing of it sticks in my mind because of his inadvertent spontaneity. I can still see the look on his face. Qualia.

Or for people who are wired up and have a need to make music.

Do you not see yourself as "wired up" Bob ? You could be if you wanted to.






  

[go12_3]

What's the point?   It's part of life      

[littletune]

You don't like practicing and everything?  I think if you like practicing and everything and if you want to then that's the point! and if you don't, and if it never makes you happy at all then I guess there really is no point  .  But I LOVE practicing and playing and I don't care if I play baby pieces and if some 5 year olds play a lot better than me    and I don't care if my dad thinks practicing piano is a waste of time!  I just have to do it! and that's the point!!!    

[go12_3]

You don't like practicing and everything?  I think if you like practicing and everything and if you want to then that's the point! and if you don't, and if it never makes you happy at all then I guess there really is no point  .  But I LOVE practicing and playing and I don't care if I play baby pieces and if some 5 year olds play a lot better than me    and I don't care if my dad thinks practicing piano is a waste of time!  I just have to do it! and that's the point!!!    

And that's a good point:  I love practicing and playing piano     Good for you!  Continue to love playing the piano and be happy,   
best wishes,
Go12_3

[scottmcc]

what's the point of anything?  life is an inexorable march toward death, and there will always be at least someone out there who is smarter, stronger, better-looking, more charming, or all of the above.

man...this is the mopiest thread in a while! 

seriously, what's wrong with playing music because you like it?  who doesn't enjoy being able to create something beautiful, even if ever so briefly?  and practicing music is fun for me, because I enjoy that wonderful moment when a piece goes from a jumble of sloppy tones to an actual bit of music.  I enjoy the discovery process of going from the printed page to an expansive sound, especially as I lack the ability to "hear" a piece of sheet music just by looking at it--I need to play it.  that's enough of a point for me--others may differ.

[birba]

I just retired 6 days, 19 hours, and 23 minutes ago.  I had to deal with selfish divas, incompetent conductors, heart-stopping stage rehearsals, pointless auditions, etc. etc. etc.
I have been playing my heart out at the piano for the past 6 days, 19 hours, and 23 minutes.  I have found my life.  I can think about ME ME ME.  Playing for playing's sake.  I've started a programme of studies that will  incorporate all music played up to now - and there's lots - and new things I want to learn (e.g. Rachmaninov-Wild Vocalise).  A few concerts a year - that's all I need.  I don't think anyone cares or needs my rendition of the the Chopin polonaise, or the Rigoletto paraphrase, or the Messiaen Ile de Feu - but I'm ecstatic to be able to do these things.  I used to think "Why the h... am I studying this?!"  Who cares?!  But now that I'm retired,  I care.  It's a new feeling in my life.  And I feel like littletune now!  I LOVE MY PIANO!

[exigence]

The only things I'm coming up with are for your own personal enjoyment... .

This is enough for me. I enjoy playing for people, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy playing for myself first.

[littletune]

And that's a good point:  I love practicing and playing piano     Good for you!  Continue to love playing the piano and be happy,   
best wishes,
Go12_3

I will I will!!!! Thank you!   

I just retired 6 days, 19 hours, and 23 minutes ago.  I had to deal with selfish divas, incompetent conductors, heart-stopping stage rehearsals, pointless auditions, etc. etc. etc.
I have been playing my heart out at the piano for the past 6 days, 19 hours, and 23 minutes.  I have found my life.  I can think about ME ME ME.  Playing for playing's sake.  I've started a programme of studies that will  incorporate all music played up to now - and there's lots - and new things I want to learn (e.g. Rachmaninov-Wild Vocalise).  A few concerts a year - that's all I need.  I don't think anyone cares or needs my rendition of the the Chopin polonaise, or the Rigoletto paraphrase, or the Messiaen Ile de Feu - but I'm ecstatic to be able to do these things.  I used to think "Why the h... am I studying this?!"  Who cares?!  But now that I'm retired,  I care.  It's a new feeling in my life.  And I feel like littletune now!  I LOVE MY PIANO!

COOL!      I think I can now play whatever I want too...  because I have already learned everything my teacher gave me for during the summer holidays, well no I've learned even more than she said I should.... and I don't have any piano lessons till september... I didn't think I would learn all that so fast... I guess she didn't either, well I think she didn't really think I was going to practice that much during the summer holidays... and I practice even more than during the year, because I have more time!  But I am a little worried what if I learned something really wrong  ... oh well..... I want to learn to play sooooooooooooo many things!!!!!     

[gyzzzmo]

What  is  the    point  of  all  those  smileys? 

[birba]

gyzzzmo, meet littletune, the cutest member of all pianostreet.com!

[littletune]

Thank you Birba!
Smileys are there so you can use them and show people how you feel!  Because if you don't use them then it's like you wouldn't even be moving your face at all when you are talking to other people! it would be kinda weird  ...... so that's why      and they're fun!!  and cool 

[go12_3]

Hey, I like those little smileys too!                    
In another forum I'm a member of, there are all sorts of emoticons!   

[littletune]

Hey, I like those little smileys too!                    
In another forum I'm a member of, there are all sorts of emoticons!   

That's cool!!!        I think it would be really great if there were even more different smileys here too because sometimes some are missing and you can't always show exactly how you feel     but I really like the ones that we have   

[saypiano]

I few days ago my boyfriend asked me if there was a point of my piano playing.

I had no answer other than I like it and I want to perform for people.
He said OK, but why would someone want to hear music that was played billion times before you. Also he mentioned that almost every decent pianist on youtube sounds the same - clean technique, good dynamic. And then he brought up example of Glenn Gould, who made classical music sound like his own.

So the main point of playing piano should be to contribute to the music world. Unfortunately I don't compose and don't like to play most of the new music, because it makes no sense to me.

But now that I kind of know the point of playing a piano, I'm not really sure how I can contribute to the music world.

Recording could be a way to do it, but only if you are innovating performance style, like Glenn Gould did.

And at this point I am stuck, because I don't know if there is a different approach that could be taken on playing music that was written long before I was born.

It's been a long couple days for me, I can't figure out If there is another way to look at classical music, or another way to communicate it to the audience. And even if I do find a way - would it be effective and would it make a difference?

Classical piano playing has been stuck for decades, people just play to make it sound perfect, and the audience is getting smaller because there is nothing new happening in our classical music world.


So what is the point?

[Bob]

I was thinking about the "making it your own" idea a few days ago.  If the composer is still alive and has an exact idea on their music, then there really is just one way to play it -- their way, what they meant.  You could play it differently but if the composer didn't mean it, then it's not quite the same piece.  And you can play within the composer's intent and have some more variations on the piece.  Vocal music can differ a little with different timbres of voices.  Instrumental music can sound nearly identical.

Or maybe I'm not listening carefully enough.  It is interesting to hear a different recording or performance of a piece just to hear things a little differently.  Nothing is exactly the same. 

It would either be exactly what the composer, within the realm of what the composer intended, or something a little different that the composer would approve of. 

I just keep thinking if the composer's were still alive, I imagine they would have strong opinions on people's interpretations and some musicians would be out of business because they wouldn't be able to ponder and wonder about what the composer meant -- The composer could give a definite answer and there would nothing else to figure out, no other interpretation needed.  And if you've got a recording of that...

Maybe part of it is to keep the music alive.  If someone did make "the" recording and that was it and no one played the piece again people might forget the subtleties of that composer, what makes that composer that composer. 


I suppose on the more devious side -- The point is to recruit and win over more people, to create more students so teachers can make money.  And possibly to develop the field of music more if more people are working on things.


Or there is no other point than it's just art. 

[saypiano]

Is it necessary to play the way composer intended for it to be?

Of course there are certain idioms stylistic to the piece, but we cant play all parts of the piece the same.
I always have different feel of dynamic when I play, and even tempo.

Sometimes it feels like pieces would sound better if they are played faster or slow.
Is it really necessary to put yourself in a box and play it the way it had to be played?
 Composers wrote for the time they lived in.  Tastes and preferences change, the feel of music changes, therefore maybe we should experiment and try to do it differently.
It's very hard to win audience if you always offer the same thing.
As performers we are kind of like a on the spot composer, we do the finishing touches on the piece. We make it shine, because it is nothing on the paper until we play it.




I think art is also about breaking rules.

[ramseytheii]

Is it necessary to play the way composer intended for it to be?

Of course there are certain idioms stylistic to the piece, but we cant play all parts of the piece the same.
I always have different feel of dynamic when I play, and even tempo.

Sometimes it feels like pieces would sound better if they are played faster or slow.
Is it really necessary to put yourself in a box and play it the way it had to be played?
 Composers wrote for the time they lived in.  Tastes and preferences change, the feel of music changes, therefore maybe we should experiment and try to do it differently.
It's very hard to win audience if you always offer the same thing.
As performers we are kind of like a on the spot composer, we do the finishing touches on the piece. We make it shine, because it is nothing on the paper until we play it.




I think art is also about breaking rules.

I agree with these sentiments, pretty strongly.  However they are hard to argue, as they rely on certain intangible things, like "stylistic idioms" (which often are expressed by poetic subjectivities), "tastes and preferences" of "times" (which can never be fully understood outside those times, and are extremely hard to quantify), etc.

Clearly the only way to argue this philosophy, is to play the piano with these ideas, and to convince audiences and colleagues of your value as a musician.

I like to tell this story, which I have probably posted often on this website, because it is so instructive to these kind of debates about accuracy and textual fidelity.  Recently the pianist Andras Schiff gave a series of lectures and performances on all of the Beethoven Sonatas; it was made available through the Guardian's online website.

In his lecture on op.27 no.2, first movement, the famous "Moonlight" sonata, he argues for a faster tempo than has been traditionally taken.  Using both the written comments of Beethoven, and clues in the actual musical text, he shows that what Beethoven intended was something around twice as fast as it is usually played.

He does this utterly convincingly.  The logic is really unassailable, and from a rational point of view you cannot argue.  However, he says to play the sonata in the traditional tempo is "wrong."  That always gets me riled up.

If you agree that Schiff is correct in his analysis on the tempo, then perhaps you have to agree that the famous recordings of pianists like Schnabel, Paderewski, Friedman, etc, are all wrong.  They don't have value, because they don't reproduce Beethoven's "intentions," a phrase which always turns my stomach.

Yet the precise opposite is true.  Those recordings are stunning, beautiful portrayals of an image which is undeniably ensconced in the music.  Did Beethoven intend the music to plod so slowly?  perhaps not.  But if you are not moved by those recordings because of what you think Beethoven intended, then you are not listening to music, you are listening to ideology.

And that, I am afraid, is rather where most of us are at now.  Musicians in general are afraid to take risks, because they are indoctrinated through ideology, not creativity.  The fact is, we should always search for the images in music which reach the ears listening.  Notice that I did not say "audience."  Different ears hear us at different times.  Do not forget the famous evening in which Liszt demonstrated three ways to play a Bach fugue.

Random thoughts on a topic I've thought about a lot.

Walter Ramsey

[berniano]

Ok, so I'm just a "freshie" going off to school this fall as a piano perf major, but already getting somewhat more than a little bit of the raised eyebrow reaction to my declared major has made me think alot about this topic. One thing that has really helped me is considering that since everyone has to make a living, why not do something that you absolutely enjoy, unless a fatter paycheck brings you more fulfillment? And also being "wired," like someone else said---- that's alot to do with it. Yeah, i'm young and idealistic, but I can't see myself doing a career outside of music in some way bc it just feels so strongly right for me. Some people think I may become disillusioned however.......