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Topic: Exercises to improve speed  (Read 18830 times)

Offline rgh55

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Exercises to improve speed
on: July 25, 2010, 03:58:20 PM
Can anyone suggest exercises to improve speed? I have an adult student who has been playing for approx. 3 years and can't seem to pick up the tempo.  Are the pieces too difficult? Even with the easier pieces, speed is a problem.  Thanks

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 04:23:11 PM
Playing more, and especially things like czerny.
1+1=11

Offline Bob

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 07:07:02 PM
I made up my own simple exerises. That worked fairly well.  Two finger pairs -- 12 repeat ad naseum.  13 14 15, 23 24 25 34 35 45.  That got them moving faster.

Scales helped too.

And doing that everyday.  After six months you can see a difference.  The trick is to get out of the ruts when you start to push it too much.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 11:57:53 PM
I presume you know what C.Chang says about "speed walls" and "parallel sets". The idea is that if we play 2 notes at the same time, with unison, like a chord, we are reaching infinite speed, because the time between these 2 notes is zero. Now, if we lift a little one of the fingers and let them fall into the keyboard, there`s a very fast sucession of these 2 notes: we come from infinite speed to very fast speed, and this is easier than speed up. For scales, one may do the same thing, first with 1º, 2º and 3º fingers (the 1º down, the 2º with a little lifting, the 3º witha little more) and after with the five fingers. Then, we play 1-2-3 (c-d-e), then 1-2-3-4-5 (f-g-a-b-c). The 1º finger "passing over" (not under) from eto f with the same mouvement we do in chromatic scale. For trills, for example with 2º and 3º fingers: 2-3 a lot of times, then 3-2, then 2-3-2 (when I learned trills, I played 100 times each one of these mouvements everyday. And this does works, believe me. All this hands separated, of course. Please try and see.
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Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 08:11:40 AM
Parallel sets refers to the combined movement to increase speed.
There is also the neurological/muscular aspect of increasing speed; that is, the speed of muscular contraction whereby the fingers move faster.

Offline pianoladywong

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 03:02:27 AM
How about practicing scales and rhythmic exercises at a slower tempo and then gradually increasing it to reach a targeted tempo. For example, starting the metronome at 84BPM, and then adding 12BPM to 96 until it reaches 144BPM.

I think intervals exercises with concentration on the ability to know where the intervals are without looking will help with speed improvement. For example, being able to play a major 6th, octave, minor 7th etc. without looking.

What about practicing with czerny velocity exercises, it will help with building advanced and velocity or Hanon exercises? The practice concentrates on finger technique which will lead to faster, stronger, and more precise technique.
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Offline timothy42b

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 06:05:59 PM
How about practicing scales and rhythmic exercises at a slower tempo and then gradually increasing it to reach a targeted tempo.

This is what the student is doing and it has not worked.

Read rmbarbosa's post about chang's approach.  These two approaches are in direct contradiction - one is wrong. 

Based on my experience, the gradual increase methods are wrong.  Of course YMMV. 
Tim

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 11:12:00 PM
Gradual increase method will only work until a point: the speed wall.  It's like walking, you can walk slowly or quickly but there is a point when the only way to go faster is to run.

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 09:20:51 AM
And remember: Piano IS talking! So there is no point in playing pieces fast, 'cause that's not how we talk! And don't run while you're playing the piano!
...

Offline Bob

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 04:18:27 PM
I think you can push that speed wall.  My fingers definitely move faster than they used to.  And what used to be the wall is easy now.


I've heard many suggestions to do short bursts or speed, as opposed to playing a continuous scale at the same tempo.  That would be playing a scale with a dotted eighth-16th rhythm -- short-long short-long short-long, or the reverse long-short, ls ls.  Or by doing a little burst of speed in three note groups -- short-short-long, short-short-long. 
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline lovettmusic

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 09:56:02 PM
In my experience, the best way to pick up a student's speed and agility is to assign them exercises out of the Hanon Virtuoso Pianist. I'm surprised no one mentioned this book before; I consider it an invaluable tool for building finger strength and technique.
A wrong note played timidly is a wrong note. A wrong note played with authority is an interpretation.

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #11 on: August 07, 2010, 06:29:12 AM
Ha! We've had atleast 5 Hanon-wars here on pianostreet... So yeah, we've mentioned that one ;)

Offline lovettmusic

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 10:20:43 PM
What was the war about? I can't find anything about Hanon that would be contrary to the improvement of speed and dexterity.
A wrong note played timidly is a wrong note. A wrong note played with authority is an interpretation.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 12:32:18 AM
From balance and control comes speed. You can prove that to yourself by playing a piece which is slow tempo that you have played for a long time and playing it faster. Even though the piece never should be played at that speed you can almost always automatically do so without even have practiced playing it at that tempo (that is if you can play it completely controlled and relaxed at its normal tempo).

I find too many people focus on speed separately as if when they play faster they must change the way they play. Piano playing to me is very much like Tai Chi, slow controlled movement, from slow soft watery lightness comes power and speed, as you control your flow of energy you can form and transfer it into whatever tools you require, what is important is that you understand it in slow motion and completely relaxation and comfort.

When playing slower it is easier to control the notes but the opportunity cost is that it is harder to hear what you are playing musically and more forgiving to technical inefficiencies or incorrect movements of the hand. You can make subtle incorrect movements of the hand while playing at slow tempo which collapses when you try to increase the tempo, this highlights the point of how subtle incorrect movements of the hand may be and you have to be very careful if you do not have an observant teacher to point it out for you while you practice at slower tempos.

Altering rhythms of long strings of notes can help students with speed. With scales for instance I get my students to not only play it normally but also play it with changes to the notes such as short-long-short-long etc    and the reverse  long-short-long-short. Controlled pausing in playing is important in cultivating a relaxed touch. Sometimes out hands feel rushed and this causes tension which is further more increased as we play faster, we can act against this by controlled pausing in our practice. Changes to the scale for instance forces the hands to play fast movements which are uncomfortable between two fingers but they have an intermittent pause throughout which allows them to constantly recover. Reversing the action exercises the speed between other fingers, once practicing with these rhythms for a little while I get them to play the scale normally and the passage much more clear and balanced.

I support the good use of Hanon too :) https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.0

...anyone can play notes fast but if it is balanced and controlled that is another question. The increase of speed/dexterity of your fingers are automatic as control/balance of notes in the hand increase. You cannot observe, Oh I can play it 4% faster now but you can definatly observe an increase of control in the hand. The notes feel underneath the hand, the fingers don't feel like they are isolated while playing playing invidivual notes, the hand feels balanced and you can sense where the centre of gravity of the hand is at all time.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline dan101

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 09:19:07 AM
You could have your student play a scale in groups of five of nine notes at a quick tempo. For example, a C major scale could be attacked either hands separately or together from C to G or C to D (the D a ninth above C) at a fast tempo. I was taught this technique in my graduate years.

The above exercise can make your student a bit stiff, so you should have some relaxation exercises on hand.
Daniel E. Friedman, owner of www.musicmasterstudios.com[/url]
You CAN learn to play the piano and compose in a fun and effective way.

Offline okoie

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #15 on: August 23, 2010, 09:58:59 AM
based on my direct experience i simply confirm what has posted rmbarbosa.I have done a real progress on accelerating speed only applying the methods of c.chang;however i am aware that individual features and factors play a major role

Offline timothy42b

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 03:21:01 PM
I have an adult student who has been playing for approx. 3 years and can't seem to pick up the tempo. 

 Even with the easier pieces, speed is a problem. 

The OP has not returned.  Too bad, because I think we need to know more.

Most of the replies have assumed that manual dexterity is lacking.  We just need to train the fingers to move faster.

But that probably isn't the case, if speed is a problem with easy pieces.

We need to know the problem a little more precisely.  Easy pieces for an adult beginner do not contain blistering scalar runs.  They're going to be quarter notes at moderate tempo. 

One guess might be that hesitation is the problem, not speed at all.  And that could be due to rhythmic inaccuracy, failure to count, failure to know the keyboard geography, failure to be able to see the sheet music, etc. 

I almost never play anything that poses a dexterity problem.  I have trouble coordinating large groups of notes, making leaps, counting leger lines, etc., all sorts of stuff that have no relation to my ability to play a scale fast. 
Tim

Offline ted

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 04:21:58 AM
Try splitting passages into small, physically convenient groups with little rests in between. Play each group up to whatever speed you want as long as everything feels comfortable and the fingers strike cleanly and reasonably lightly. Then after a time of doing this, start joining the groups together, still at speed. I don't know why this works but it certainly has for me and I use it with my Virgil Practice Clavier to practise the figures I want to use later in improvisation. It seems especially useful for things like rapid double notes or any sections of continuous finger work. Apparently the method has been in common use for ages but I first heard of it from Brendan Kinsella of Pianoworld.

There is a certain amount of shrewdness required in judging exactly where to stick the microsleeps but changes in hand position are good places. I haven't applied it to a lot of classical because I don't play much classical, but where I have it has worked very well.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline sherryll

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #18 on: August 27, 2010, 08:07:26 AM
You could have your student play a scale in groups of five of nine notes at a quick tempo. For example, a C major scale could be attacked either hands separately or together from C to G or C to D (the D a ninth above C) at a fast tempo. I was taught this technique in my graduate years.

The above exercise can make your student a bit stiff, so you should have some relaxation exercises on hand.

Good technique for speed and scalability

Offline ted

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Re: Exercises to improve speed
Reply #19 on: August 27, 2010, 12:08:38 PM
Nice to see another Kiwi and Aucklander, Sherryll. We are a very rare species on piano forums.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce
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