Clavichord can improve piano playing?

[i_am_joey_jo]

I have heard from members here and there that a Clavichord can help accentuate the piano playing and help you articulate Baroque passages more properly.

Can anyone respond about this? 

[birba]

More than a clavichord, a harpsichord can help with cleaning up your articulation.

[quantum]

Additionally, an organ can help develop a more refined legato finger technique. 

[gyzzzmo]

Playing more than 1 instrument COULD always enlargen someones understanding of music.

[birba]

I'll go with that last one.

[ramseytheii]

I have heard from members here and there that a Clavichord can help accentuate the piano playing and help you articulate Baroque passages more properly.

Can anyone respond about this? 

Everyone's right, but a word about the specific, from my vantage point: remember that clavichords depend on a very refined kind of touch.  Not only can they perform vibrato unlike any other keyboard instrument, if you press too hard, you actually change the pitch of what you are playing.

So obviously, that teaches a very refined, controlled kind of touch.  It's important to remember that the art of playing keyboard, any keyboard, is the art of touch.  Naturally, when we focus on how we want a succession of keys to sound, and the feeling that arises from success, our bodies will respond.

Walter Ramsey

[keyboardclass]

Because of it's construction (no mechanical damper) you're in charge of the end as well as the start of each note.

[chris_goslow]

Additionally, an organ can help develop a more refined legato finger technique. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

I like your signature!   Not sure I understand all of it (Will Faure Stein?), but it's cool!

[quantum]

Foray - as in venture.  It is separate from "Stein" as proper name of a place.  "way" as a word extension of "Stein".   

 

[chris_goslow]

Very cool.

Gotta love the composer word puns...

[Derek]

I just bought a clavichord, a few weeks ago. I finally got a tuning wrench in the mail and tuned it today, and spent a good hour or so improvising at it. I love it...I think there's a possibility I'm learning more about myself musically as a result. I'll always love the piano too of course, but man...I REALLY love playing this thing. The ability to do vibrato and actually feeling the strings vibrate against your fingers via the keys is really satisfying. The touch is a challenge though, sometimes I find the tangents "bounce" and produce a clicky sound. This sound may be desirable in certain contexts but I want to learn to control it.

[chris_goslow]

That is awesome, Derek.

Does it have black white keys and white black keys?  I mean, are the colors of the keys reversed?
I just watched Amadeus yesterday and that was the case for those keyboards.

--Chris

[Derek]

Yep, it's got that old-school color scheme on the keyboard. The keys are made of rosewood, as I understand it. I got a Sabathil & Son clavichord. Unfretted, one string per note. What I thought was really neat about Sabathil's instruments is they make them with a metal frame. So, it is like an updated version of a clavichord. I guess some makers like to only reproduce historical instruments, but Sabathil appears to believe that the old makers are dead and now it is their turn to innovate  .  The instrument is still quiet and tender as a clavichord ought to be...it has a gorgeous, bright tone.

[keyboardclass]

The touch is a challenge though, sometimes I find the tangents "bounce" and produce a clicky sound. This sound may be desirable in certain contexts but I want to learn to control it.

It's called chucking.  You may want to join the Yahoo clavichord group.  You'll find some vids of mine here: www.youtube.com/keyboardclass.  The first vid I'd only just taken it out of the crate!

[pianowolfi]

I just bought a clavichord, a few weeks ago. I finally got a tuning wrench in the mail and tuned it today, and spent a good hour or so improvising at it. I love it...I think there's a possibility I'm learning more about myself musically as a result. I'll always love the piano too of course, but man...I REALLY love playing this thing. The ability to do vibrato and actually feeling the strings vibrate against your fingers via the keys is really satisfying. The touch is a challenge though, sometimes I find the tangents "bounce" and produce a clicky sound. This sound may be desirable in certain contexts but I want to learn to control it.

Uber cool, I'm looking forward to some recs   I wish I had one myself but there's a problem with space. And $  How much was it?

[pianowolfi]

double post

[keyboardclass]

Uber cool, I'm looking forward to some recs   I wish I had one myself but there's a problem with space. And $  How much was it?

Space!? They sit on a table top!  And talk about neighbour friendly!

[lostinidlewonder]

Gah, why buy one of these? I guess they can be fun for a little while, but doesn't that monotonous sound get on your nerves after a few minutes? I would attempt to make one of these, they look easier than the piano to make by many many degrees. I don't believe they improve modern pianoforte playing since they are a very feeble instrument with a touch that does not relate to the modern piano.

https://dustyfeet.com/mykeyboardbaby1.html

[keyboardclass]

Their tone may be feeble but is far richer than any piano, and the sustain! - they come into their own playing vocal music.  Beat that piano player!

[lostinidlewonder]

Their tone may be feeble but is far richer than any piano, and the sustain! - they come into their own playing vocal music.  Beat that piano player!

Errr, depends on what your definition of "rich". They are not as sonorous as a piano not by a long shot.

[keyboardclass]

Errr, depends on what your definition of "rich". They are not as sonorous as a piano not by a long shot.

No, way more!

[Derek]

Gah, why buy one of these? I guess they can be fun for a little while, but doesn't that monotonous sound get on your nerves after a few minutes? I would attempt to make one of these, they look easier than the piano to make by many many degrees. I don't believe they improve modern pianoforte playing since they are a very feeble instrument with a touch that does not relate to the modern piano.

https://dustyfeet.com/mykeyboardbaby1.html

I think monotonous would be just about the last word I'd use to describe a clavichord. Harpsichord---maybe. Since no matter how you hit the key, it will make the same sound (don't get me wrong though, I love the sound of harpsichords as well...I hope to own one someday but it is outside of my budget at the moment). But on a clavichord you can do bends, vibrato, and an unbelievably extreme range of dynamics. Of course, the max loudness is still much quieter than a piano.

As for $$, I was able to nab a used one. Someone's grandma had it since the 70's I guess and barely played it at all, so it's like I got a brand new one for a 5th the price. It was about 1000 bucks. As for space, it is barely larger than my digital piano. This isn't quite a table-top one, as I understand it the table top ones are fretted. This is an unfretted instrument, so it is a bit bigger.

[Derek]

It's called chucking.  You may want to join the Yahoo clavichord group.  You'll find some vids of mine here: www.youtube.com/keyboardclass.  The first vid I'd only just taken it out of the crate!

Amusingly, I'm already a member of that group. Three years ago I had a clavichord mania, and it welled up again recently resulting in my vigorously searching the internet for one to purchase. I'll check out your vids, thanks.

[Derek]

Here's my clavichord.

[lostinidlewonder]

The Clav just has that picked sting type sound to it which to me is very monotonous no matter how it is played (the variations of its sound are too subtle for my ears even though one can notice it). Unlike the piano which can sound like say water, wind, fire for instance, the Clav just has that plucked sound and clarity continuously, the piano can just contrast more clearly.
Logically if the clav was a more versatile instrument than the piano it would have been developed further and written for more exclusively throughout time. But don't get me wrong it is a beautiful instrument.

[keyboardclass]

the Clav just has that plucked sound

Your ignorance is showing - the clavichord is not plucked, neither does it sound plucked!

Nice looking machine Derek.

[lostinidlewonder]

I said it has a picked/plucked sound not that is is plucked, read properly. And I can say however I think it sounds like, i dont need your nazi rule book following me.

[keyboardclass]

I said it has a picked/plucked sound not that is is plucked, read properly. And I can say however I think it sounds like, i dont need your nazi rule book following me.

In that case the piano sounds plucked!  It's sustain is shorter than the clavichord.

[lostinidlewonder]

Compared to the Clavichord the piano does not sound plucked in my opinion but the Clav compared to the Piano does. How is its sustain shorter if the piano can create a louder sound which will take longer by physics to depreciate to a zero sound compared to a clav?

[keyboardclass]

How is its sustain shorter if the piano can create a louder sound which will take longer by physics to depreciate to a zero sound compared to a clav?

Because all things are relative - relative to the initial dynamic of the note the clavichord's tone lasts longest.  Also there's the buzz supreme!  You wouldn't know but in the old days sounds were much muddier.  They tried to recapture it on the forte-piano with the bassoon stop - to no avail.   

[lostinidlewonder]

  You wouldn't know but in the old days sounds were much muddier. 

Ah you must be like 200 years old then huh.

[keyboardclass]

Ah you must be like 200 years old then huh.

No, I do my research then speak.

[lostinidlewonder]

Wow research, obviously it is so exclusive that I could never have heard or played an antique. Your research must also include that you follow me everywhere I have gone in my life because you are so sure that I have not heard it. Ha! Great research. I didn't know that one speaks on a message board or have you researched into how you can make words speak?

[keyboardclass]

Just for your info re: the buzz.  It's why Africans nail bottle tops on their mbiras and why bray harps were the most popular harp for a few hundred years till the 1800's when the Romantics began 'cleaning' up timbre.   So, if anything is 'monotonous' it's the piano!

[Derek]

By buzz do you mean the reedy tone in the lower registers of the old forte-pianos for example? I think that's kind of a neat effect. There's a cool video here contrasting all the major stringed acoustic keyboard instruments (its where I learned about what I think you're saying):

From the Clavichord to the Modern Piano

Part 2, this one has the fortepiano in it near the beginning. He demonstrates the variation in timbre throughout the instrument.

[keyboardclass]

This is more the sound:

I have a similar factory made harp but as yet no bray pegs.

[Derek]

almost sounds like its going "weeowww" is that what you mean? Reminds me of the behavior of a tone from a sitar, somewhat. And, I think this is similar to what is going on in the old fortepiano sound demonstrated in that video, maybe.

[keyboardclass]

With a clavichord it's all to do with the listing.

[pianowolfi]

Well I feel very uncomfy with this "discussion", to put it mildly. As if it were about a pro and contra when it comes to Bach's supposedly favorite instrument. Really sad.

[Derek]

I agree with pianowolfi. My own opinion: Each instrument has virtues and flaws...I love all of them. Time will tell if any become a more frequent companion than the piano has been, we'll see.