Should we buy this vintage Kohler Campbell?

[blanco]

Your opinion is valued!  Husband wants to start playing again, and daughter wants to take lessons.  We'd like to buy an older vertical w. character.  This one came up on Craigslist, and my husband looked at it today.  It's a KC vertical, vintage 1905-1912 per serial nr, been in the same family for ~40yrs, plays well, faults: one of the very high black keys is missing hammer, and the D above middle C makes a tapping noise when you let go of the key.  My husband describes the sound as "saloon style".  It does need tuning, but isn't terribly out of tune. Incredibly heavy... The owner is asking $500 firm. What say ye?

[Bob]

You really need to have a piano technician look at it to know.

Although I'm thinking Kohler Campell isn't the greatest.   And $500 sounds like a lot for a used piano.

And it's got some problems?  Misisng hammer and noises?  

I would pass.  I'd go for a slightly used (ie almost new) Yamaha upright.  

Sounds like you kind of want of want it if I'm reading that into your post.  I don't quite understand why you'd want a piano that's older and has character -- What's character?  I could understand used -- It's cheaper and should retain it's value (if not increase it).  

At the very least I'd want those keys fixed.  Maybe the owner would throw in moving it or having it tuned after it's moved (although it might take a couple tunings before it holds pitch after adjusting to your home's environment).  

I'm wondering how a piano can lose a hammer too.  Some kind of accident either inside or outside, but if there was an accident inside somehow, that's strange.

A lot of people give old upright pianos away.  I wouldn't hesitate to negotiate with them at all.  I wonder what the reasoning is for being firm on $500.  

Rereading -- The D above middle C makes a noise?  How many times are you going to hit that key?  That's going to get annoying very fast.  And those are the things you know about the instrument so far.  

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Scratch that.  I changed my mind.  I wouldn't want a piano that's 'like new.'  I'd want a piano that was already broken in and had the problems worked out already -- that kind of used piano. 

[quantum]

Considering it's age plus the faults you have noticed thus far, this one definitely needs a technician's evaluation.  If it hasn't been tuned at regular intervals, it may have trouble staying at pitch and in tune. 

What kind of character are you looking for in older pianos that you cannot find in newer ones?

[netzow]

I wouldn't recommend it. An 100 year old Upright that needs repair, and a tuning, plus the cost of a move. You could be talking 1000 just to get it in your home and playing. You should be able to find something similar if not better for cheaper. And when you do have it evaluated by a technician before you waste the cost of the piano and the move. Hope I didn't discourage you and hope this helps.

[Bob]

I saw a used digitial, a basic full size keyboard, for $300 yesterday.

[lostinidlewonder]

If you want a piece of furniture that you can polish and put stuff on top of and maybe play some out of tune honky tonk or rag piano on then get the upright. But if you want to make music with perfect tuning get a digital you can get a decent one for $500 and you never have to worry about tuning which is really a waste of money for an old piano that is not in pristine condition.

[silverwoodpianos]

Humorous postings from members who are not technicians.

The D above middle C is missing a hammer butt felt. Cost: less than a penny and can be installed in less than 15 seconds.

The missing hammer head is a broken stem; and the head might be in the bench or down the bottom of the instrument in the pedal area. Cost: about 12 dollars to replace....

Lots of older instruments are worth tuning and keeping well maintained.

The only piano not worth tuning is the one where the tuning pins are too loose for the instrument to hold pitch.

This can  happen to an instrument of any age...not just the ones at the 100 yr. mark.

I would have the instrument inspected for present mechanical condition by a local technician of your choice. After all, no-one here can see the instrument in question, and all you are getting in response is a lot of presumption.

[quantum]

sliverwoodpianos's evaluation of the cost to fix these issues is accurate concerning the materials involved.  However a technician will also charge for travel time and labour. 

[richard black]

... but (following Quantum) you'll be asking the technician out to tune the instrument anyway if you buy it.

ALWAYS get an informed opinion on a piano before paying more than the price of a few beers for it, preferably from a technician but at the very least from an experienced pianist - and don't forget to check the tuning basis. Some pianos sound reasonably in tune with themselves but are horribly flat overall and that's a death knell.

[lostinidlewonder]

I use to tune pianos in a warehouse and most of them where old 2nd hand pianos. Ok some can hold their tune and when you tune it they sound lovely, but they never hold their tune very long by comparison to a new piano. My Yamaha C5 which I purchased new holds its tune with months of playing every time I get it professionally tuned. I have personally never come across an old 2nd hand piano that ever holds its tune very well which makes the money you get out of paying a technician to tune a piano much less its value. I guess if you don't care about spending $100 on tuning for a $500 piano and having to get it tuned 5 times a year then it wouldn't matter but then it is strange that if you can spend so much money on tuning you why couldn't you spend a bit more on a better quality piano?

[silverwoodpianos]

A piano tuning is the musical equivalent of fresh cut flowers. Within 24 hrs the tuning has moved due to fluctuations in temp/humidity. These things are not static; neither is a piano.  A pianos’ structure rises and falls with every change. These changes may not be heard by all but that does not mean they are not happening. This happens with all pianos, both old and new.

There is no comparison between a Yamaha C grand and an old Kohler upright.

Regarding small repairs of this nature, yes of course there is a minimum service fee. Usually these types of small repairs can be done when a tuning is booked. Just make sure that the person doing the bookings is aware that there is extra service required.

The OP will have someone look at the instrument (hopefully) and that person will determine condition and value.

Many people have a romantic memory of these older tall uprights. Yes, they could get a better instrument for more money, or a new instrument for a LOT more money, but as the OP stated the husband wants to begin playing again. What better way to find out if this is just a fleeting thought then to grab an old upright and bang away for a bit. They might find that this could be the best $500.00 they ever spent.

If the OP finds that there is a desire to continue then they can always upgrade at a later date.

 Most dealers these days are hoping to sell something, and are willing to take trades to make a sale.

[lostinidlewonder]

There is no comparison between a Yamaha C grand and an old Kohler upright.

And this is a key point, to highlight that you will pay the same money to tune either piano, the old piano will not appreciate the tuning as much as a decent piano which highlights how you get more bang for your buck when tuning a good piano rather than one that is dying.

[Bob]

I don't think they'd get $500 for the instrument when they don't want it anymore either.

[lhorwinkle]

Granted that the mentioned/known faults can be easily corrected.  But a person on the street is not in a good position to evaluate a piano's condition.  Given the age of the piano, it's likely to have more problems than just those two mentioned by the OP.

As someone said earlier, a technician's evaluation is necessary. I would add that it's necessary when buying ANY used piano, whether it's 100 years old or 5 years old.

I'm not sure I'd bother, though, with this piano.  There are plenty of pianos to choose from. Pick one with, say, 80 fewer years of wear.

[Bob]

Even a trained pianist can't always tell. You still always need a tech to check it out. 

Although a pianist could tell more about the touch, etc.  I've wondered about new instruments, about whether you should pick something that physically feels good to play or if it should be something that makes you work a little more.  I suppose it's a toss up, pros and cons either either.

[keys60]

There are statements here that I find a bit disturbing. Hasn't anyone here seen some old gems in fairly good condition?
 A."$500 seems a bit high for a used piano". Really? That's a pretty general statement. All pianos are used once they leave the factory.

B. "A missing hammer and a clicking noise." Big deal. I broke a new hammer off pulling a mute wedge out too quickly. Cheap fix. A clicking noise...probably a small piece of felt somewhere. A cheap fix.

C. $500 for a piano they don't want anymore. I don't want my 5K few year old Charles Walter anymore either OR my mint Baldwin Acrosonic spinet with new strings and pins. Does that mean I can't ask more than 5 hundred?

Seems no one here has seen this old beast. I could be a real piece of junk relic with a bad pinblock, rusty strings, warped wood components and flanges and crusty worn out felt, or it could be a fairly well maintained old piano.

Have it checked out by a technician and take it from there. Sometimes even putting a little hard earned into an old relic can bring some happiness.

[Bob]

If it's that old, you can take some good guesses about it -- Maybe it's in decent condition, or maybe it's going to need some continual work and be more of a money pit. 

If you've got a brand new piano, that's lost a lot of value after you've bought it.  At least from what I hear.  Instrument buying it like car buying.  Used is good value and holds its used value -- and a used piano can actually go up in value.

If it's a grand piano, it's different.  It's worth whatever a used instrument in that state is worth.  I don't think it's the best brand, didn't sound it was maintained in great conditions the whole time, and the age part... Vintage doesn't mean it's better at all.  I was starting to wonder if they mentioned the 1800s if all the little extra new inventions were part of the instrument.  I've heard about grand pianos from the 1850s but they're not exactly like modern ones. 

The price sounds a little high to me.  The typical upright I hear about is someone trying to get rid of the thing and they just want someone to come pick it up for them.  If that was the case with this instrument -- if it's a dud -- then then the trash hauler in this case is paying $500 to haul away someone's trash.

It's old, asking price is kind of high, exact condition is unknown but there are a few repairs it definitely needs.... Doesn't sound like the best thing to take a chance on.   It could be a good find though, but it's still a chance.  Maybe it's more worth taking a chance for one or two hundred dollars.  Then if it's a dud, they're not out that much.

I got the impression the original poster was really leaning toward buying the instrument, if they haven't gone ahead and bought it anyway.  And if that instrument was in someone's family for 40 years that family might be a little attached to it and have some false idea of its value.  Then again, the value of the instrument might be right for that area -- If it is crap yet there are no other instruments in that region available and people really want pianos, maybe it really is worth $500. 

I'm kind of curious what the original poster actually did.  Or if it's being advertised on Craigslist a lot, if they were to wait, to see if the price goes down -- That's a situation I've seen before.  The seller wants one or two hundred but no one wants the thing.  A few months later they're just trying to give it away.