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Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61 [new Audio posted!] (Read 18253 times)

Offline prongated

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Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61 [new Audio posted!]
« on: September 10, 2010, 02:39:28 PM »
About 4 months...and it's turned into something like this!


piano sheet music of Polonaise-Fantaisie


Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #1 on: September 12, 2010, 06:33:55 AM »
When it comes down to it, the Polonaise Fantasie is probably my favorite work of Chopin. That and the Scherzi...but there is nothing else really in that realm with op. 61, and I love the idea of starting a recital with the Polonaise Fantasie, as an entrance into this other world. That said, I unfortunately sometimes have great problems in discussing performances of the piece, as I just don't know what to say. Part of this is no doubt a reflection on my own struggles and absolute inadequacies in approaching the piece to perform it, or in the case of Chopin, inadequacies in general, for my Chopin never turns out as Chopin...the music affects me in a deep way, but my own personality always wants to pull it out a certain way, an "inspiration" I cannot seem to get past. Even now regarding your recording, I notice it is down to 12:43, whereas my mind has never let it come below 14. No, I like it where you have it. I notice the difference in inflection and phrasing at every turn, and I say, yes, yes, this is it. This is Chopin. You've have the great element of the polonaise, and the fantasie is there in check and in balance. It is a good performance; no doubt you've put a lot of hard work into it.

One negative note does not regard your performance itself...it's the cutting the recording before the release of the last note! Ah, that drives me a little crazy. Otherwise, to the performance, yes, I enjoy the performance.

I'm sorry if this is not the most productive post...I hope it will at least bump it up to receive it's deserved attention from more capable posters then I.
Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

Offline liordavid

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 02:55:20 PM »
this is a very hard piece and you played it pretty well. However, you could use less pedal; the pedal can be like a drug for a lot of people in my opinion. Your stretched chords could be more accurate. in this piece some of your expression can be very suddle. With Chopin in this piece you need to have more of that melt in your ear ascending and descending expression. great playing though. keep working :)

Offline rachfan

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 04:23:09 AM »
Hi prongated,

Very well played played!  On the pedaling, by and large you pedal for clarity.  There are a few places that blur a bit.  There you just need to listen keenly and manage the half pedal releases better.

Around 6:40, there is that marvelous lyrical section.  My suggestion there is to play less in a cerebral way and more from deep feeling.  Mental imagery becomes feeling which becomes intent which transfers into execution.  It needs to be bel canto in character, and to make the piano sing there, you need to be singing the melody in your head.  If you do that, the playing apparatus will do the rest.

This is very impressive!

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline prongated

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 03:32:51 PM »
Thanks for listening, and the critical comments! Much appreciated :)

One negative note does not regard your performance itself...it's the cutting the recording before the release of the last note! Ah, that drives me a little crazy. Otherwise, to the performance, yes, I enjoy the performance.

Oh yikes...sorry I should've done it more carefully >< and I agree regarding its placement in a recital - I plan to start my next one with it, in fact! And yes, I do think this is one piece that everybody can have completely different ideas about! So no matter what it is, I should appreciate where they come from, so anything coming from someone who plays the Liszt Dante so well is always worthwhile, I think ^^

this is a very hard piece and you played it pretty well. However, you could use less pedal; the pedal can be like a drug for a lot of people in my opinion. Your stretched chords could be more accurate. in this piece some of your expression can be very suddle. With Chopin in this piece you need to have more of that melt in your ear ascending and descending expression. great playing though. keep working :)

Yeah, the pedalling...and I should like to blame my Nokia N95 for the sound quality inadequacy, but listening to it myself, I do agree more subtlety can be achieved! And accuracy...I hate recordings ><

Around 6:40, there is that marvelous lyrical section.  My suggestion there is to play less in a cerebral way and more from deep feeling.  Mental imagery becomes feeling which becomes intent which transfers into execution.  It needs to be bel canto in character, and to make the piano sing there, you need to be singing the melody in your head.  If you do that, the playing apparatus will do the rest.

Hehe...again I should like to blame my Nokia N95 for the sound quality, but I agree it needs more more of what you say. Too much movement there, I think...and the melody - that's for sure!

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 09:45:33 PM »
Thank you for posting this wonderful piece!
I think you have got the overall idea very well, some things could be more in contrast to each other, for instance the polonaise rhythm could be more "strict" in contrast to the fantasy parts. But I know, I am always very much into that Polonaise rhythm, probably it's my preference and perhaps I tend to exaggerate it, like I would do with the second beat in a Waltz...

To me it seems a bit weird that you put your hands completely off the piano after the freely ascending arpeggios in the beginning. I would rather stay on or slightly above the keyboard, listen attently and not move on to the next arpeggio before the last one really could unfold its entire magic.

Offline birba

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #6 on: September 16, 2010, 04:25:18 PM »
Well, for four months work, you've done a lot.  Your approach to this incredible music is right.  You follow all of Chopin's indications, you don't exaggerate the rubati, the phrasing moves, and I think you will really do this piece well as you get older.  I agree with Furtwangler that this has to be Chopin's masterpiece.  I've tried and tried and come back to it, and studied it, ad nauseum, but those last few pages are just impossible for me to learn.  I think I started learning it too late in life.  You've got the basic hold on it, and it can only grow from here.  The weakest section, of course, is the middle lyrical part.  But I'm sure this will mature with time.  Everyone says you over pedal.   I think you could be a little more inventive with it.  "Blurring" isn't always bad.
But, dammit!  You've inspired me to try again.  I want to perform it so much!   :'(

Offline prongated

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 07:10:10 AM »
Thank you for posting this wonderful piece!
I think you have got the overall idea very well, some things could be more in contrast to each other, for instance the polonaise rhythm could be more "strict" in contrast to the fantasy parts. But I know, I am always very much into that Polonaise rhythm, probably it's my preference and perhaps I tend to exaggerate it, like I would do with the second beat in a Waltz...

To me it seems a bit weird that you put your hands completely off the piano after the freely ascending arpeggios in the beginning. I would rather stay on or slightly above the keyboard, listen attently and not move on to the next arpeggio before the last one really could unfold its entire magic.

Well, I did play it for a Polish pianist when I was in Freiburg, and she said something along that line - it's a Polonaise first and foremost. Personally I like to think that it is a Polonaise-Fantaisie...and yeah I'll look into that hands off problem...I'm developing bad habits like that recently I think ><

Well, for four months work, you've done a lot.  Your approach to this incredible music is right.  You follow all of Chopin's indications, you don't exaggerate the rubati, the phrasing moves, and I think you will really do this piece well as you get older.  I agree with Furtwangler that this has to be Chopin's masterpiece.  I've tried and tried and come back to it, and studied it, ad nauseum, but those last few pages are just impossible for me to learn.  I think I started learning it too late in life.  You've got the basic hold on it, and it can only grow from here.  The weakest section, of course, is the middle lyrical part.  But I'm sure this will mature with time.  Everyone says you over pedal.   I think you could be a little more inventive with it.  "Blurring" isn't always bad.
But, dammit!  You've inspired me to try again.  I want to perform it so much!   :'(

Absolutely this is a unique masterpiece in the piano repertoire - there really isn't anything else like it! And here's hoping it gets better ^^

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #8 on: September 18, 2010, 05:37:07 AM »
Thank you for posting this wonderful piece!
I think you have got the overall idea very well, some things could be more in contrast to each other, for instance the polonaise rhythm could be more "strict" in contrast to the fantasy parts. But I know, I am always very much into that Polonaise rhythm, probably it's my preference and perhaps I tend to exaggerate it, like I would do with the second beat in a Waltz...

No performance that I've heard has so successfully displayed the polonaise aspect of the the piece than this one on youtube:




This performance has always given me great pleasure, though it's completely different from my conception and yours. I've always loved listening to it.
Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

Offline goldentone

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #9 on: September 18, 2010, 07:25:41 AM »
The lyrical section was beautifully played; a clear distinction from the first part.  The coda was excellent! This may be but the second time I've heard the Polonaise-Fantasie.  Seeing the praise given it here, it's time I became familiar with it.  Solid playing throughout.
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline can

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #10 on: December 05, 2010, 11:26:42 AM »
This a great performance. It seems that you understood Chopin.
“Perfection itself is imperfection.”<br />Vladimir Horowitz

Offline emill

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #11 on: December 08, 2010, 02:39:56 AM »
just BEAUTIFUL!  so expressive  ........
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline zeusje

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61
«Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 11:56:15 PM »
Very well played! One of my favorites of chopin.

Bert
studying:

Beethoven sonata no. 1 op. 2
Bach Prelude and Fugue in g-major, WTCII
Schumann fantasie stucke op.12 (no. 1,2)

Offline prongated

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Re: Chopin: Polonaise-Fantaisie op. 61 [new Audio posted!]
«Reply #13 on: January 28, 2011, 05:24:32 PM »
Many thanks for the (perhaps, too) kind comments!

In the meantime, here's a (hopefully better) November 2010 attempt on a NY Steinway D, with much better audio quality!