Hungarian Rhapsodies???

[Shagdac]

Could someone please list for me the approximate order of difficulty of the Hungarian Rhapsodies by Liszt. Also, mot just their difficulty, but also which ones are played the most, and which are not as well known.

Also, where would the Rhapsody Espangnole fit in as far as difficulty? Is it easier than the #2 or more difficult?

Appreciate your opinions.

Thanks
s

[Motrax]

I don't know about difficulty, but Rhapsodies number 2, 4, and 11 are played a lot around here (relatively). Numbers 2 and 4 seem to be the most popular in general.

[in_love_with_liszt]

Hmm...well no.2 is pretty difficult if you play it correctly, no.6 is a bit tiring as well, you need really good wrist action, and the only other one I've played is the 12th-which has parts that are difficult to master at first but it's not very hard in my opinion. I know that the later rhapsodies are somewhat easier though...or so I've been told...the rhapsodies in general are representative of Liszt's moderate difficulty works.

[larse]

Yeah, that's right. The Rhapsodies are not supposed to be all that difficult. I've played nr 12 and 13. And..Though No 12 has some difficult parts, at least no 13 is not too hard. Not at all actually, at least nothing special. I recall rehearsing it like any other piece. No 12 was more special.
No 2 is the most know of the rhapsodies, pherhaps because of Tom and Jerry's performance...
But many are known...No 15 the 'Rakoczy-March', No 5 'Herodie Elegiaque', not to mention the Pester Karneval (No 9). And No 10 is very famous.
Despite that. I seem to like No 16 the best. Except for no 12 and 2, I think that is my favourite.
I played No 13 because of the ending theme. It's a copy of Pablo de Sarasate's Zigeunerweisen for Violin and Orchestra, which by the way is fantastic. There's an incredible recording with Anne Sophie Mutter on Deutsche Grammophon.
These Rhapsodies are, after my experience, extremely entertaining to play. There is so much passion in the forplays and so much joy in the nachspiels. Though...If played correctly, that is if you..overdo some parts, you should be able to make it sound as if Liszt were actually joking when he produced these pieces. They do tend to sound like parodies, pherhaps especially No 2. Sort of like Shostakovic's 1. Piano Concerto and his Symphony No 5. But that's another story.

Oh I forgot...It's right. The early rhapsodies are quite difficult. No 2 is horrific...sort of like his etudes. But No 12, 13...maby 15, 16 and 10 too...should not be too difficult.

[Goldberg]

Which one is the one he (Liszt) used with the Hungarian Fantasy? It's quite good as well...is that no. 16? I also like 19 a whole lot, but it's not that difficult unless you're playing a transcription.

[larse]

Oh My Crazy God! I never played Nr 12. What am I thinking! Now that you mention it, I played the Hungarian Fantasy, No 14....Whee. Glad you sorted that out!

[in_love_with_liszt]

Oh My Crazy God! I never played Nr 12. What am I thinking! Now that you mention it, I played the Hungarian Fantasy, No 14....Whee. Glad you sorted that out!

Lol....you should play the 12th....it's fun and although it is tricky to grasp some parts at first, it's really not bad...although if you play the Stretta Vivacio at the correct speed (2 or 3x the speed most pianists play it at) that will be a slight nightmare at first...just as challenging as the second rhapsodie...and the chromatic-climactic ending throttles the audience every time....a fun piece all around.... although here's advice to anyone playing or ever planning on playing any of the rhapsodies- remember that Gypsy music is characterized my the stark contrast in moods of different sections, and by the flowing speed: don't linger in one part for too long, keep it moving, and fast, as this is the nature of the music.

[larse]

Yes...very fast...In balkan; Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, etc. The old folk music is often based on 11/16 and 18/32..Not that the funky beats should bother you in Liszt, just that these are pointing towards one hell of a speed.
If anyone should be interrested, though, you should listen to ie Czardas by Vittori Monti(which is probably the most famous of eastern european folk music-inspired music. It has become a traditional song, however.). There is a version out there played by Nigel Kennedy. But if you want the real thing: Look for a man called Sandor Laktos. He performs these things over real traditions and at the real pace.
One should also listen to Zigeunerweisen by Pablo de Sarasate.

Well...Pherhaps I should play nr 12. I never liked it, though. And I'm sure there's a good reason why.
And I though I should be starting the Rakocky-March! It gets so fun at page 170 (Edition Peters) When the glissandos in thirds appear... some of these runs are just funny.

[maxy]

# 9 is hard, Spanish Rhapsody is also quite hard. So far, it is  my top 2 for hard! Harder than #2.

2-4-6-9-10-12-13-14-15-spanish, are all quite well known...

The late ones tend to be ignored.  

[larse]

is spanish no 16? Though... if you think it's really hard (not that it is'nt), I don't think you should play them. They are all hard, but someones are hardER, and if you can't play the easy ones(compared to the others, you should begin with Chopins etudes before it's too late.
:

[donjuan]

We mustnt forget number 19, his last one.  It is perhaps the most effective of all the rhapsodies- it has a similar tone to the forgotten waltz's, and is much easier than the other Rhapsodies.  I can sightread most of it, and I am a pretty lousy sightreader!

My favorite ones are 1 and 11.  Number one is also very difficult, but it develops nicely- and it should, being the longest Rhapsody of Liszt.

Spanish Rhapsody is a great piece, but I cant stand Emil Gilils playing it.  He sounds like a bull in a china shop.

donjuan

[maxy]

Gilels? Spanish Rhapsody? Are you talking about the live recording?  I find it most exciting!  Full of wrong notes but I love it!  It's intense!  

Cziffra plays it quite well...

[Shagdac]

Don't bombard me with hate mail!!! But I have a recording of Evengy Kissin playing The Spanish Rhapsodie....I think it is good, and that he does a fabulous job. It is on the Carnegie Hall debut CD. Anyone else hear it? Hey Don, I didn't know there was a #19! Do you know where I could download it?

Thanks,
S

[donjuan]

Don't bombard me with hate mail!!! But I have a recording of Evengy Kissin playing The Spanish Rhapsodie....I think it is good, and that he does a fabulous job. It is on the Carnegie Hall debut CD. Anyone else hear it? Hey Don, I didn't know there was a #19! Do you know where I could download it?

Thanks,
S

I love Kissin's live recording of Spanish Rhapsody.  He truely captures Liszt and all his intentions.  Stephen Hough has an interesting interpretation, and I enjoy his original cadenzas, but he doesnt follow Liszt's indications and plays with too much rubato.

I dont know where you can download a live recording of it, but you can listen to it on the internet:

https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/default.asp?pn=SContentQuery&itemcode=&disctitle=&works=Hungarian+Rhapsody&Composer=Liszt&Artist=

click the 6th item of the list, and you wil find it.

Maxy:

Gilels? Spanish Rhapsody? Are you talking about the live recording?  I find it most exciting!  Full of wrong notes but I love it!  It's intense!  

Cziffra plays it quite well...

Yes, I was refering to the live recording- the one on his edition of the Greatest Pianists of the 20th century.  I hate it!  I mean, in the last 4 minutes, at least 60% of all notes he played were wrong.  It is distracting and annoying!  Alright, he started it out right, in fact, he started it out very well, but it just fell apart later as he began to go faster and faster...
hmm maybe it is just because the recording is so old..
And one thing I noticed- the audience didnt applaud at the end.  Works like Spanish Rhapsody pretty much demand a standing ovation, no matter who plays it.- It's just the nature of the piece.

donjuan

p.s. I have never heard Cziffra play it!  Where can I find a recording? thanks.

[maxy]

It's on  an EMI 2 cd set.  The first 15 HR plus the Spanish Rhapsody!  GET IT!!!!!!!  A true must! There is also a 5 cd set (EMI) that would get you a bunch of other Liszt pieces including the 12 Transc. Studies, Funérailles, the Sonata!  Man! get the 5 cd set instead! You get the HRs and more!  Not expensive at all!

BTW, Arrau also did mess up the end of Spanish Rhapsody on some recording.  OMG he is human!!! I can't believe it!  Why so much harshness towards mistakes?  Gilels messed up but still the excitement, the intensity was awesome!

[donjuan]

It's on  an EMI 2 cd set.  The first 15 HR plus the Spanish Rhapsody!  GET IT!!!!!!!  A true must! There is also a 5 cd set (EMI) that would get you a bunch of other Liszt pieces including the 12 Transc. Studies, Funérailles, the Sonata!  Man! get the 5 cd set instead! You get the HRs and more!  Not expensive at all!

BTW, Arrau also did mess up the end of Spanish Rhapsody on some recording.  OMG he is human!!! I can't believe it!  Why so much harshness towards mistakes?  Gilels messed up but still the excitement, the intensity was awesome!

hey, ive heard Arrau play it!  In the recording I had, he plays the 13 minute piece in 8 minutes, and skips lines and bars everywhere!

That sounds like an interesting set of Gilels.  I have a feeling we arent talking about the same recording of the Spanish Rhapsody.
donjuan

[MasterTuner]

BTW I posted a thread on the performance forum about Mahler using a piano piece in his Symphony no.3.  It was one of the themes from the Spanish Rhapsody!

[bachmaninov]

The difficulty of the Hungarian Rhaps. varies.

number 2 is the most difficult skill wise... you need alot of experience

number 14 is the LONGEST one... it does have its calm moments though

number 6 (my favourite) Is a bit tiring because of the work-out you get in your right hand near the end of the piece. -- I say this is the best one to play for a first hungarian rhapsody... not too long, and it teaches you not to play with too much arm strenght, and to play with your wrist instead. --I say to my students, THINK NOODLE!--

[maxy]

set of Gilels?  no it is a Cziffra set...

[donjuan]

oh sorry about that, I got confused!  Maybe we were talking about the same live performance of Spanish Rhapsody played by Gilels.  Where did you hear it?