Mental Play - what are your thoughts?

[vincentl]

A friend of mine recently suggested a book about Mental Play and said it was very useful. So I asked for a copy from him, and I was only able to read but a few pages. I could not finish the book yet because I do not have that much time in my hands right now. So, on to my question, how exactly do you do mental play? Do you imagine yourself playing the piano in your head or something?

[keyboardclass]

It's a very good technique - do the fingering first at the instrument then memorize the sheet away from the instrument.  I see a RH and a LH keyboard portion as I do it.

[birba]

I guess that's a lot like the Lebert-Gieseking book.  I tried it, really did, and gave it up.  SO hard.  But in my case, it was probably an example of you can't teach an old dog new tricks. 

[scottmcc]

I think that developing a mental concept of a piece is critical--you have to be able to hear it in your mind so that you can critique yourself, and analyze how closely the actual sound matches up with your desired sound.  but I'm incapable of memorizing a score away from the piano, or looking at a score and telling what it will sound like without playing it, so the Gieseking method just doesn't work for me.  I really like following scores while others play things though.

[vincentl]

I tried it the other day, it's pretty difficult. I guess I will just have to practice it everyday. I also find it difficult to memorize a piece away from the instrument, are there any tips on how to memorize a piece away from the instrument? Do I like, do the fingering on the instrument then do the fingering on a table or something? Or just think of what fingers I should use as I read the notes on the score?

[keyboardclass]

For those that have the Gieseking/Leimer book pg 15 (etude) is so easy to commit to memory it doesn't bear thinking about.  What about the Bach French Suite VI pg 86? The first bar can't take more that 5 minutes to memorize surely?  If I tell you it's all semiquavers starting on the 3rd degree of the scale, descending, then leaping from 5 to 8.  Then completing the scale 1 - 8, 2 - 8 do then again!  LH just an arp up twice!  In words this is quite a feat, in notes quickly done. 

[birba]

You are right, of course, and you make it sound so easy, but things get more complicated then that in most music.  I'm convinced on an abstract level that the Gieseking-Leimer method is a valid way to learn music, but not everyone, I think, (me for one) has that mental discipline needed to get through it.  I found myself falling asleep.

[keyboardclass]

As he says on page 83 - The struggle with the so-called "mentally lazy" is, of course, a difficult one.

[birba]

I would have driven him mad...

[vincentl]

I will have to get my hands on that Gieseking/Leimer book in order to have a better understanding on this. It is so difficult in my country to find music books.  If you say music here, it is always about what is contemporary in our age, such as Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, etc.

[rmbarbosa]

I dont know this book. But I use MP a lot of times along the day. When I`m learning a piece, first I read the sheetmusic and  memorise it, bar to bar, one hand and the other. Then, if possible, I hear the piece played by good pianists, reproducing in my mind the sheetmusic, eyes closed. After this, I mentaly sing the music, "seeing" the sheet, and trying to "see" the keyboard in my mind. I imagine the best tone, the "nuances", the dynamics. All this only in my mind. When I sit in front of the piano, one or two weeks later, I already have all this things in my mind and then I`m able to play, without sheetmusic in front of me. Each day, the last time I play it, I play very slow, specially if I must play in public the next day. All this prevents mistakes and increases speed and technic. It`s very frequent, when playing a bar, I`m thinking in the next bars. Doing this we NEVER forget one piece and we may play it years latter. Try it and you`ll see. Its quite easy.

[birba]

Well, I'm going to give it another try.  I just began looking at Messiaen's Rondeau - an early piece of his.  Not really difficult.  I'm going to write down how long each session takes.  See you next year...

[birba]

I've found that there are places in the rondeau that I can analyze first and then play without looking (no more then 2 bars at a time) if there is a definite sequence to the notes and chords.  Other times, I have to play it a few times to get it "in my ear".  This is where my perfect pitch helps me.  But this is no longer mental play.  At any rate, I'm forced to use greater concentration in learning a piece.

[keyboardclass]

If you have perfect pitch I would think just hearing it in your would be enough for memorizing.  You miss out quite a bit though without doing the analysis (like most of the meaning).

[birba]

This why I find it difficult to believe that Martha Argerich doesn't have perfect pitch.  It seems she learned the prokofiev third only by listening to her roommate practising it.

[keyboardclass]

You know Prokofiev himself gave up learning it?  Too much trouble!

[birba]

I wonder how he dealt with no.2 ?!

[keyboardclass]

Basically he said he could write a whole movement in the time it took him to play at a top standard so he gave up.

[birba]

 

[keyboardclass]

Here's an easy challenge.  Mentally memorize no. 8 from this in chunks: https://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/6/6d/IMSLP08526-Heller_-_Op.145_-_Valzer.pdf

[faa2010]

Normally when I learn and practice the piece, maybe my mind can think in the wrong note's name (eg. I play A# and in my mind I say B, or C and it says B).

However, the stuff that is really printed in my mind and says me if I am playing the right note are the sounds that are supposed to be heard at that moment (I calll it sound memory). I need to listen to the piece in order to know how to play it, then I am guided by the score.