Dallapiccola

[thalbergmad]

Normally when I see the words twelve tone or dodecaphonic I run very fast in the opposite direction, but I have just spent an extremely enjoyable few minutes listening to the Piccolo Concerto per Muriel Couvreux.

Hinsons guide for Music for Piano and Orchestra tells me that Dallapiccola exploits the sensuous qualities of sound more insistently than do most other dodecaphonic composers. If this is true for other Dallapiccola works, can anyone recommend further listening??

Also, I have read that Valen liked to use quartal harmony as well as Dallapiccola. Is this common in the 20th Century as I have only seen it mentioned a few times??

Damned good work this.

Thal

[ramseytheii]

You should absolutely listen to "Quaderno musciale di Annalibra" which is ostensibly a set of pieces based on one twelve-tone row, but is so varied and beautiful.  Even though he employs very learned techniques beyond the twelve-tone row, especially canons and their retrogrades and inversions, the piece is overall impressionistic.

Also he wrote some violin music, one piece being some modern arrangement of a Tartini something or other.  He has a rather good recording of a violin recital (he is playing piano) with Materassi, doing the Ravel sonata among other interesting things.

I have the score to the Piccolo Concerto but have never heard it, unfortunately.

Walter Ramsey

[nikolasideris]

The use of 12-tone material can be very varied! It doesn't mean that 12-tone = ugly sounding music. A mix of different harmonic style can also work effectively.

So, in Thal's question the reply is that: there are many contemporary composers who can sound great, not just good, so it's just a matter of picking up the right ones. Not all contemporary music is rubbish, or ugly sounding.

On Dallapiccola. I have the score for 'the prisoner' (Il prigioniero??? in Italian), which is a fabulous opera. A very fine composer I think.

[thalbergmad]

It doesn't mean that 12-tone = ugly sounding music.

Indeed, I must expunge myself of this equation.

Thal

[nikolasideris]

I will confess that I get into arguments about C20/21 (20 and 21st century that is) music; rather often.

Usually I try to explain that not everything is bad sounding. And not all dissonance is bad. But this falls through the cracks most of the time.

I'm glad to see you accepting my super simplified equation...

[birba]

YES!  You must listen to "Il Prigioniero".  Dark, morbid, tragic - A lot of Dallapiccola I find very tedious. But this opera is a little gem.  Funny, I never really considered him 12-tone, but you're right, he is.  And look at Berg's Wozzeck.  He uses the technique but not exclusively and therefore is not tied down to it. What an opera!!!!

[thalbergmad]

Thanks gents, I have some interesting listening ahead of me it seems.

My God, I am turning atonal.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

You mentioned Valen in the opening post. If you want to look at his piano music, I highly recommend the Variations. It is a bit harder edged than Dallapiccola's music, but it still has a great deal of lyricism. It even has a relatively discernible tonality, despite its use of 12 tone devices. Also worth looking at is his Piano Sonata No. 2. Valen also has a short Piano Concerto, but I personally cannot say much about the piece, for it hasn't really clicked with me yet.

[birba]

If you're going to listen to Wozzeck, begin with Marie's aria in the last act.

[gep]

Thanks gents, I have some interesting listening ahead of me it seems.

My God, I am turning atonal.

Thal

First a tonal, now atonal; you'll be an aleatorist before you know it! Do have a go at the Lutoslawsky Piano Concerto!
By the time you think Synaphaï too light a ditty for your tastes it will be time to have a break, I think!

Happy exploring!

gep

[richard black]

Yes, I'm very fond of Dallapiccola's music too. Another 12-tone composer who's caught my interest in the past is Humphrey Searle. Never looked into what, if anything, he wrote for piano.

We have on earwitness authority (Erwin Stein) that Schoenberg said of the 12-tone system, 'I have discovered the system that will ensure the superiority of German music for the next 100 years'. How ironic that many of the most successful 12-tone composers were not German!

[ramseytheii]

We have on earwitness authority (Erwin Stein) that Schoenberg said of the 12-tone system, 'I have discovered the system that will ensure the superiority of German music for the next 100 years'. How ironic that many of the most successful 12-tone composers were not German!

I thought this quote comes from a letter?

In any case it is not the only irony.  Here is the eloquent Milan Kundera on Schoenberg:

"When Schoenberg founded the twelve-tone empire, music was richer than ever and intoxicated with its freedom.  The idea that the end could be so near crossed no one's mind.  No fatigue!  No twilight!  Schoenberg was animated by the most youthful spirit of audacity.  To have chosen the only possible way forward filled him with legitimate pride.  The history of music had ended in a flowering of audacity and desire."

The beliefs expressed above are not necessarily the beliefs of the poster.

Walter Ramsey

[birba]

Hadn't heard that before.  Not far from the truth!  

[ramseytheii]

This came from "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting," which has several musings on music.

Walter Ramsey