Do you think it is possible?

[Balakirev]

I really love music and I really want to understand it better. I really cannot afford a piano or a teacher so I have been reading books and sneaking into a conservatory to practice piano. I have been doing that, very intensively, for a year now.

I knew, right from the start, that I could not learn the piano all by me so I looked for other options. There a public school that offers a free music program. There’s my chance, I only have to meet the requirements and I could attend a Music class.

I don’t want to become a concertist, I only dream of that, but I really want learn to play well. I am really thirsty of music.

The only thing is that requirements are really hard to achieve for me, yes I know that for some of you it might sound easy:

I have to present at least 2 of these

• A fugue or an invention from J.S. Bach ;  
  Or
  
• A sonata (Haydn, Clémenti, Mozart, Beethoven, etc...)  
  Or
  
• A study (études de Czerny, Cramer, Moscheles, Moskowsky, Chopin, ou sonates de Scarlatti ...)  
  Or
  
• Romantic (Nocturnes de Chopin, intermezzo de Brahms, romances sans paroles de Mendelssohn, oeuvres de Schumann, Liszt, Schubert, etc...)  
  Or
  
• Modern (Oeuvres de Debussy, Ravel, Prokofiev, Bartok, Shostakovich, etc...  )
  

I don’t want showoffs pieces just something that I can really master.I also need a rhetorical knowledge and a developed ear.  I just started ear training and I am reading books on Theory. I spend a lot of quality time on it.

Since I just started piano a year ago I don’t play very difficult pieces but I play them well:

• Schumann Album fur die Jugend: Wilder reiter, Knetch Ruprecht, Klein Studie
  
• Kabalesky: Klein toccata
  
• Anna Bach: the Whole book
  
• Sonatina no 2 clémenti
  
• Piazolla Astor: Ballade Para un loco, La muerte del Angèl.
  
• Mozart Sonatina (and not Sonata) no 1
  
• Czerny op.821 the first 10 exercices.
  

I know the best thing I could do is to get a teacher put I simply cannot afford one. When I do have money I go to a class or 2. I tro to ask one or two question when I get to see a pianist.
Well that's all I could manage to learn to learn this year. I know these pieces by hearth I do know some others But I don’t play them well enough to say I own them.I need some kind of help or at least a direction. I need new pieces and clues on techniques and Interpretation. For sight reading, I have a very good memory I cannot explain it. I just remember everything at first sight.
Merci
PS: If you want more information in order to help me or just don’t understand a word of what a wrote, just tell me.

[donjuan]

It's too bad you cant afford a teacher or a piano.  

You could probably get in to the music program, just play your Czerny etudes and one of your romantic Schumann pieces.  Then, you will meet the requirement without having to learn a new piece.

Lots of luck on your journey,
donjuan

[Balakirev]

I don't think these are difficult enough. I still have 8 months could you suggest pieces that are more technical challenging (but not too much).Something that will sound great in an audition. Something that I could play well with the little skills I have.

Do you know if Czerny op.821 is difficult enough?

here's a link with the requirements but it’s in French

Présenter un programme de gammes et arpèges au choix ; Test de lecture à vue de niveau varié.

It means that you have to present a a programm of scales and arpeggios. How do I do that? I know a couple of scales but how am I suppose to present it?
Thank for the reply!

[donjuan]

hmmm tough one...
You need to learn scales and the arpeggios of key signatures, it's really the only way... And the only way to do that is with a teacher, or a good theory book.  I can give recommendations on a theory books if you are interested..

Learn all you can, and do a few of your best scales for them- play in various speeds, use staccato, use staccato in one hand only, do scales in different directions, I dont know- Be Creative!

You should take a look at a Beethoven Sonata.  These pieces are the staple diet of almost every student.  Right now, I am learning the 3rd one.  They range in difficulty, but you could probably manage the Sonata in G major, Op.49, No.2.  It isnt too easy, and will be impressive if you can perform it the way it is intended.  Many small children (mostly asian) play this piece, and musically, they hack it up  - playing the piano like a typewriter-, and as a result- It doesnt have a good reputation..
If you can capture the charm of such a piece, you will be on your way.  It also incorporates scales and arpeggios, so it could help you prepare for your programme.

Now, as for the Czerny...
There are better pieces out there for you to play, but they are all much more difficult.  I am sure you will be accepted, so long as you play well.  Some people think it is better to play an easy piece really well than make a mess out of a hard piece, but I believe you win by attempting pieces too difficult for you.  It shows you have integrity and initiative, and perhaps it may even get you accepted.  You need to decide for yourself if you are willing to take the risk or not.  The worst thing would be to mess up an easy piece because of nerves.

Think about it....

donjuan

[Balakirev]

I have found Beethoven Sonata op.49 no.2.

Do you have any tips/guidelines for this piece?

thank you

[donjuan]

not really, it is a lot like Mozart and Haydn.  Just keep the time exactly accurate by practicing with a metronome.  However, be careful of paying mechanically - Beethoven should never be played like that.
what are your worries with it?  
donjuan

[bernhard]

I had a look at the French site you provided. I see a number of problems:

1.      It is not very detailed. For instance, it requires a sonata movement from Beethoven, Haydn, etc. However both Beethoven and Haydn have composed sonatas with huge differences in difficulty. Some are beginner pieces, some are virtuoso pieces that scare away even the most seasoned performer. Likewise with Czerny etudes (some of which are for total beginners and some which are very challenging), Scarlatti sonatas and so on.

2.      This is an exam. It is not enough to know the pieces. You must also know the exam format. Although we can give you some limited help in regards to pieces, only a person familiar with the exam itself can help you prepare for it. Unfortunately this means a teacher – not any teacher – but a teacher who is familiar with the exam.

3.      It is also not clear what they mean by a “program of scales”. On an ABRSM exam there are specific scales that you have to know for each grade. The performance requirements are also specific to each grade (how fast to play them, hands together or separate or both; parallel movement, contrary movement or both; over two, three or four octaves). The ABRSM syllabus is very detailed and gives directions to all of these issues. Even then, a teacher familiar with the ABRSM would save a lto of time and anguish. However , if you look at the Guildhall exam, or the Trinity exam, although similar in their requirements, they are quite different in little details. For instance, ABRSM does not care which fingering you use on scales – as long as it sounds good – while Trinity demands a specific fingering. This is not obvious and again a teacher with experience in the exam format will save you a lot of time.

So I would suggest as a first step that you contact the administration of this school and ask for the following details:

i.      Difficulty of the pieces. Do they have suggestions? You see, there I no point in preparing Beethoven’s sonata Op. 49 no. 2 – the easiest of the 32 – if they are expecting something on the level of the Pathetique (sort of halfway the difficulty scale). Likewise, there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas. Some are for total beginners some are pieces of the highest virtuosity. Again, there would be little point on preparing K32 (one of the easiest) when they are expecting K141 or similar (one of the most difficult).

ii.      Find out about the scales and the requirements. Is it your choice? Only major and minor scales, or are there chromatic, whole tone and pentatonic scales as well (and others)?

iii.      There is also sight-reading. What is the level? Can they give you an example of piece that you may expect to sight read?

Come back once you have a bit more definite information.

Is it possible? I don’t know, you will have to try and tell us later. (But without a teacher it will be hard). If you are still alive, there is hope.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[adidaschica]

AWW!! Its really too bad u cant get a piano.
But u HAVE to explore these pieces!:

Nocturne in F minor Op.55, No.1- Chopin.( this song is AWESOME!)

Waltz in E minor; Posthumous- Chopin.
(so is this one!!)

Sonata No.48; HOBXVI/35 - Allegro Con Brio.- Haydn

Prelude and Fugue; WTC Book 1, No.2; BWV 857-J.S. Bach

Invention No.14 BWV 785 - J.S. Bach

Invention No.4 in D minor; BMV 775- j.s. bach

Dr. Gradus ad Parnassum- Debussy

Sonata K330- W.A. Mozart

Sonata K545- W.A. Mozart

Alla Turca- W.a. Mozart

Sonata; Allegro, ma non troppo; Op.49, No2 - Beethoven

Fur Elise(of course)- Beethoven

[Fastzuernst]

Many small children (mostly asian) play this piece, and musically, they hack it up- DonJuan


First of all, DonJuan I would like to teach you a little geography lesson regarding ASIA.

Asia is the larget continent in the world which consists of many countries/cultures including muslims, indians, chinese, japanse, indonisian, turkish, and yes... russians. And I am not even naming all of them!
The idea that you would make such a claim that most "asians" hack up a piece is absurd and absolutely not based on any really knowledge.
I find your ignorance totally inexcuseable.
Please take the time to educate yourself rather that becoming another ignorant, uneduacated fool.

[MasterTuner]

Fastzuernst,

 I am not defending DonJuan but, I believe he IS asian.

BTW Sind Sie Deutscher?

[Fastzuernst]

Non
I am not german

[chopininoff]

I have to agree with Bernhard that the site doesn't give you that much info.

I can't give you advice on what to choose, or how to present scales as a program (never heard that before!) but what I can say is while you want some difficulty in the pieces, don't do those which really stretching your technical abiilites to the max. The examiners (like most people) are more likely to prefer the pieces to be comfortably within the range of the pianist. For auditioning for a school, unless the difficulty and qualifications are clearly stated, they are looking more for promising people, those with potential, than those who can play say, Rach 3. Choose a program that you can deal with comfortably, pieces which you can play well enough to be able to give musical expression naturally (not forced, or followed mechanically) and ones which you won't be nervous about, since you are likely to worry about a piece if it is tricky for you.

Good luck!

[donjuan]

Many small children (mostly asian) play this piece, and musically, they hack it up- DonJuan


First of all, DonJuan I would like to teach you a little geography lesson regarding ASIA.

Asia is the larget continent in the world which consists of many countries/cultures including muslims, indians, chinese, japanse, indonisian, turkish, and yes... russians. And I am not even naming all of them!
The idea that you would make such a claim that most "asians" hack up a piece is absurd and absolutely not based on any really knowledge.
I find your ignorance totally inexcuseable.
Please take the time to educate yourself rather that becoming another ignorant, uneduacated fool.

Mastertuner is right- I am asian.  I am also part German, so I can see this thing from both sides.  I dont want to stray far from the topic, but I have noticed trends with how white north americans play compared to how chinese students play.  You can see it ever so clearly at student recitals- the chinese kids play difficult pieces technically well, but their music is devoid of any emotion or storyline.  They will have huge repertoires of great pieces, but fail to play any of it with any musicality.
You can see an example of such a student in this thread:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1073903534;start=2

The white children play with more mistakes, (eg. wrong notes, Rhythm mess ups) but usually do a good job of separating voices and developing phrasing.

Please keep in mind I am making broad generalizations here, but for the most part, I know other people on this forum will have noticed the same thing.  Take a look at this thread and the statements said.  

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=misc;action=display;num=1086540129

I am not alone here...

And, I am not ignorant!! Music and performance, art and expression- it is my whole life!  I just notice these things and am pleasantly surprised sometimes to see I am wrong.  But in competitions, or festivals- I am almost never wrong!
donjuan

[Fastzuernst]

so your arrogant as well, great combo
It is so great that you are spreading all your "knowledge" to this forum.

[donjuan]

It's really not a matter of arrogance.  I call things as I see them, and make judgements as I see fit.  Like I said before, I love surprises and therefore I love being wrong!  That is how I learn and mature through time.  But I have seen too many Chinese students play in the most sterile, cold, and robotic manner....

[Balakirev]

I  Have a teacher   I am so Happy!
He doesn't french or english, He only speaks Russian and a little bit of spanish.