little "preview" to discuss my upcoming "midiedition" of WTK I (Prel+Fuge Nr14)

[Steffen Fahl]

Since I am currently working on a total new "edition" of my WTK I. I am interested to hear the comments of such a critical comunity as Pianostreet, to improve what I am doing.

In short: After studiyng the whole WTK beside the whole Haydn sonatas, the whole Liszt Studies and Messieans "Vingt regards" for more than a year I have played/recorded thoses pieces of the WTK I + II in e few weeks one after the other. They were all played 5 years ago on a digital piano while I heard the pianoasound, the mididata was recorded by a sequencer. It was my very first attempt to work with classical music on a sequencer in consequence many things were far from being acceptable. Meanwhile I edited those midirecordings a bit after having just recorded them but there was a lot left what needed to be done.

When I published my recordings on my own website, I first published them also but draw them back after a few days because they were so inaccepable in my eyes. Now I found the time for a new attempt to edit them more  musically. So all notes you hear are being "real played" on a digital piano. But I had much to correct, and enough things adjusted to strengthen the thought and consequence of the interpretation. On the other hand you will hear that things like (micro-)rubatos, ritenutos or riterdando and so on directly derive from real playing which would have been more laborious to reconstruct just by editing a midifile derived from a scanned score.

If you are not a fundamentalistic enemy of any kind of sampled music, you may even hear, that one can control the certain colour a certain note should have quite precisely, what allowed me (as it seems to me) to strengthen the intentions of my interpretation.

I am curious about what ever you think about - (as far it relates to the musical substance and interpretation of the two pieces shown in this thread) in addition I will attach the screenshots from the edited mididata of both pieces.
best
fahl5

[birba]

The fugue was absolutely beautiful.  Didn't think it would have been possible to achieve this "electronically".  There were moments when I felt it was being pulled ahead a bit to fast.  Not like a desired accel., but like not being able to hold the tempo.  a very slight uncomfortable feeling.  But the tone was really lovely with different shades of piano.  I'm curious about the Messiaen. I've played the vingt regards and he's a stickler for precise dynamics.  I'm sure I would never have satisfied him!    I bet he would have been curious to hear your rendition!

[Steffen Fahl]

The fugue was absolutely beautiful.  Didn't think it would have been possible to achieve this "electronically".  There were moments when I felt it was being pulled ahead a bit to fast.  Not like a desired accel., but like not being able to hold the tempo.  a very slight uncomfortable feeling.  But the tone was really lovely with different shades of piano.  I'm curious about the Messiaen. I've played the vingt regards and he's a stickler for precise dynamics.  I'm sure I would never have satisfied him!    I bet he would have been curious to hear your rendition!

Thank for your critic. I will check the tempo again. Since I just edit from realplaying recorded mididata, nothing is correct in a mathematical sense. When I edit I try to keep musical reasonable aberrations but sure I have to care for a metrical "comfortable" listening. Thanks for the hint. You just mentioned the fuge, does it mean the prelude was as bad that you just try to be polite by not mentioning it?
If it is so, it is not necessary. If I want to improve my editing I am very interested in musical critics especially if they mark problems.
I have abandonned the Idea to publish my "vingt regards" recordings, since I could not do this on my website because of copyrights and here I already found a recording. I did'nt think there would so much need for a second one here. But you can listen at least a Messiaen prelude on my site, which i recorded for a Demo I was asked for.
best
fahl5

[keyboardclass]

I agree the fugue was beautiful, if a little cold.  If Bach could have heard that he'd be all for sequencing his works.

[birba]

I agree, much to the chagrin of other members, I imagine.  No, I didn't mention the prelude, because it sounded so much like an electronic copy.  I think the faster works, and especially in Bach and Mozart, I would imagine, are much more difficult to convey as a personal interpretation.  It has that robotic fast metronomic quality that just doesn't sound natural.  On the other hand, I would have thought it impossible to portray that sublime fugue in such an intimate and personal way.

[pianowolfi]

There are some text errors in the fugue. Like in other of your midi recs as well, for instance in the Schönberg op.19,1

But that's not the point.
Why does a pianist like you strive for an artificial mechanical fanatic perfectionism? Are you looking for a job at Toyota's for playbacking for their musician robots or what?

You will not only lose music but yourself as well, on this path.

Go practice and perform as a pianist. I understand that you are afraid of this but once you get over this hurdle you won't regret it, I'm sure

[keyboardclass]

Disagree.  The secret is an authentic realization, how that's achieved is immaterial.

[pianowolfi]

Disagree.  The secret is an authentic realization, how that's achieved is immaterial.

Well if your goal is to be replaced by a perfect machine, if that gives you fulfillment, if that's your way to overcome your "ego" or whatever, then be it.

It will never be the path of a true musician though.

Machines making music for machines. Wonderful! The real perspective for the future of the musical world, oh yeah...

[keyboardclass]

You would find Gould would have agreed (and used the technology if he'd had it), though I would have found his realizations uncomfortable myself.

[pianowolfi]

You would find Gould would have agreed (and used the technology if he'd had it), though I would have found his realizations uncomfortable myself.

Yes sure. Gould was also afraid of performing. He felt under pressure and looked for a way out of it. But that's not our way as musicians. We really need to get more self-confident Even if we're surrounded by perfectly playing musician robots we have to stand unconquered. Because we are irreplaceable.

[Steffen Fahl]

There are some text errors in the fugue. Like in other of your midi recs as well, for instance in the Schönberg op.19,1

But that's not the point.
Why does a pianist like you strive for an artificial mechanical fanatic perfectionism? Are you looking for a job at Toyota's for playbacking for their musician robots or what?

You will not only lose music but yourself as well, on this path.

Go practice and perform as a pianist. I understand that you are afraid of this but once you get over this hurdle you won't regret it, I'm sure

Hi pianowolfi,
Thanks for your severe answer which is in a way nearly a bit to flattering (promising me a chance as performing pianist). Yes you've got me again. I'am a lazy boy and I was already when I started pianoplaying. Since I didn't like reading notes I just learned from the ears what my teacher played me once when he said which piece I should play. Thats why and (this is true) it happens still to often that I play pieces by heart, before being sure I ve got all. (So help me a bit I didn't find the damned mistakes probably I have to much my own version in my ears).

And yes you are right I am still lazy enough to use technic if it seems to make something easier for me. (I even prefer to make use of the vacuum cleaner instead of the besom) So it might appeare like that: Why struggeling in pianocontest etc to play a pianoconcert, when I can programm it myself? But it is a bit another way round:


My mother loved music and played stringquartett, so she wanted us children to play cello, violin etc. My father was kind of an engineer and worked at his desk inventing complicated but prezise instruments for the industry. So I decided to play piano because it is playing music like sitting at a desk and handling complicated interesting things. So for me it is not at all loosing myself combining both today. Moreover I try to let participate on on things the other might take some profit from.


I understand your point for you, but since I experimented with syntheziser recording etc. since I was a child this is also part of me. Let me try to prove that there is still a warm human feeling behind and nothing lost. At least to show that seems to me (perhaps just for me) an exciting challenge.


Even my former Pianoprof. At the conservatory inspired me (more or less without his own intention) to work with midi, since he invited in the 80th the guys from Boesendorfer to demonstrate us students the midi-Grandpiano they were experimenting with at that time. On the other hand he several times proposed me why I didn’t study composition beside the piano since he thought that might fit. So what I do now is trying to “compose” interpretations. My goal is no other than the one of any other honest musician to communicate from “heart to heart” as Beethoven put it. But still every musician needs his technical means for this comunication and none of those technics will ever replace any soul you will ever needfor this kind of comunication. So in short if someone like what I did, I suppose the comunication was succesful. ;-)
Best
fahl5

[pianowolfi]

See that's what I said. Thanks god you are human after all   So go prax your *** off 

Haha   

[thalbergmad]

fahl is an android

I am beginning to warm to and appreciate his work, but still stand by what I said before, since we are hardly suffering a shortage of recordings of this work.

Now, a realisation of a Steibelt sonata would be of interest.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

fahl is an android

haha

Well I think he is a victim of an exaggerated German idealism and perfectionism. Negotiate your "ego" do everything for the "perfect art"
Plus a victim of a merciless competition and struggle for life in the music business which tends to destroy all your self-confidence.

[Bob]

I'm wondering how much more material he's able to cover doing that.  It sounds like there's more opportunity to work on interpretation and not be held back by technique, except for the technique to program the software and realize what you want.

[Steffen Fahl]

I'm wondering how much more material he's able to cover doing that.  It sounds like there's more opportunity to work on interpretation and not be held back by technique, except for the technique to program the software and realize what you want.

It is still much and hard work, since as you propably know, it is also not the easiest thing to strive for a good interpretation on the piano. The Material collected was made during the last years. Still I like any other interested in music have to practise music.
I think I would'nt been able for instance to record the whole Haydn sonatas which were most instructive for my midiediting, without having practised them all for more than a year. And it still took another year just to record and edit all 54 Sonatas on both samplesets (Walther Pianoforte and Steinway D). There are not much things what you can do in no time. Still it might be that you might spend more time for a single piece by just practicing and performing it, but in my opinion it is not so probable that you might do what I do without having long time practised traditional repertoire in the traditional way before.

@ thalberg
yes I will of course come back to the real secret treasures of pianomusic. But having a WTK I halfdone was on one hand a bit annoying on the other still a good practis if I might remember, apply and realize a bit of the things I've learned when studying piano at the conservatory .

And as my constructor promised me recently with some GB more RAM and a the next software update no one will pick on me any longer for having an accumulator where others have this unhandy and extremly irregular pumping myocardic muscular organ. ;-)
best
fahl5

[keyboardclass]

Prokfiev gave up practicing his own works because he realized he could write a whole new piece in the time it took him to polish his works to the standard others played it.  Is fahl's approach any different?   Where's your Haydn fahl?

[Steffen Fahl]

Where's your Haydn fahl?

It makes nearly half of the recordings on my Musicwebsite
Here is Haydn on a sampled Walther Pianoforte
Here is Haydn on a sampled Steinway D (It's the previous version of the one I've played the Bach of this thread)
To listen both, you should have some time (ca. 12hours)
I hope you like it.
At least a Father of a former Pianopupil used it for cardriving - so obviously I play loud enough to match with carengines on german highways (we dont have that restricted tempo limits like most other countries  )
best
fahl5

[keyboardclass]

I just listened to https://klassik.s-fahl.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=159%3Ahaydn-pianosonatas-21&catid=19%3Ahaydn-complete-pianosonatas&Itemid=38&lang=en, one of the Esterházy Sonatas.  Some of the ornaments don't work but the Finale was great!  I think it works super-human.  Your site is a great resource for students of Haydn.  Many thanks!

[Steffen Fahl]

I just listened to https://klassik.s-fahl.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=159%3Ahaydn-pianosonatas-21&catid=19%3Ahaydn-complete-pianosonatas&Itemid=38&lang=en, one of the Esterházy Sonatas.  Some of the ornaments don't work but the Finale was great!  I think it works super-human.  Your site is a great resource for students of Haydn.  Many thanks!

Thank you for the kind coment. Great that you enjoyed it. The finale is in no way anything "super-human" you can play it like that. As I told you those Sonatas were played real before beeing midiedited. Anyway, after all it is presto.

If you seriously take care for the tempo Haydn has chosen, his sonatas become quite brilliant pianomusic and like all good pianist-composers he already wrote the fast pieces in a way, that you really have the chance to play a presto real presto.

In fact I had my pianopupils in mind when recording that. I made it as a "little" christmas gift for them since you get so rarely the chance to hear haydn sonatas. And as far they make nearly the half part of my music-site, they got nearly half of the hits with 12000 hits for each collection.

Thank you again for your kind reaction.
best
fahl5

[keyboardclass]

Presto, according to CPE Bach, is as fast as you can play - so rarely heard!