Rethinking the Liszt Sonata

[djealnla]

This will probably spawn a big argument and infuriate many people.    Discuss:

https://richatkinson.blogspot.com/2008/02/liszt-virtuoso-pianist-amateur-composer.html

[stevebob]

Thanks for sharing.  Here's the text of this mini-essay:

Everyone seems to mention the B minor sonata in defense of Liszt's greatness as a composer. They admit that most of his output is crowd-pleasing surface music, but they hail the B minor sonata as the continuation of Beethoven’s tradition in the genre. I’ve never understood this argument, since the B minor sonata has never seemed ingenious to me in any way. It certainly doesn't have the Romantic originality of Chopin or Schumann, and where craftsmanship is concerned, one might generously equate it to Beethoven's Op. 14 Sonatas (the worst ones). What does it have? I don't even hear the virtuosic flair that seems to have been Liszt's sole talent. I know it's devilishly difficult to play, but the perceived difficulty is much less than usual for this silly type of flashy music. The time he spent transcribing the Beethoven symphonies was much more productive -- maybe instead of composing such mediocrities as the Faust Symphony, he should have transcribed the Haydn and Mozart symphonies as well.

There are so many problems with faulty logic here that I can't really take the piece seriously; the author treats his own opinions and musical taste as the factual basis for his argument instead of presenting conclusions drawn from real evidence.  Based on this one sample of his writing, I think he's a provocateur rather than an earnest critic capable of critical thinking.

[mistermoe]

Beethoven's Op. 14 Sonatas (the worst ones)

That guy just can't be taken seriously.

[pianowolfi]

Too bad to infuriate me.

[kelly_kelly]

Yeah, there isn't really any substance worth getting upset over...  But am I the only one who likes Beethoven op. 14? Not comparing them to Beethoven's later sonatas (or Liszt for that matter ), but they are nice pieces...

[pianist1976]

Hahahaha  It's a very funny article. A good demonstration about the sentence "ignorance is bliss" (and brave...)

[mistermoe]

But am I the only one who likes Beethoven op. 14?

If you reread my previous post attentively, you might find out, you are not alone...
But perhaps the two of us are the only ones...although i hope not!

[pianist1976]

But am I the only one who likes Beethoven op. 14?

But perhaps the two of us are the only ones...although i hope not!

No, we are three!  Beautiful and charming sonatas   

[argerichfan]

This will probably spawn a big argument and infuriate many people. 

Why should it spawn a big argument or infuriate anyone?

That is merely one person's opinion.  In the meantime, I'll get me coat...  see you later. 

[mistermoe]

No, we are three! 

Awesome! 

[birba]

Make it four.  As far as the Liszt goes, this guy can't get beyond the technical difficulties.  I, too, felt like him when I was younger.  But you have to consider WHEN it was written and what was being written at the time.  Liszt held great admiration for the Schubert Wanderer, and it seems it spurred him on to write his b minor sonata.  It's strange this post should come up now, because I've gone back to the sonata and am amazed at certain elements that escaped me before.
Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, I guess.

[pianowolfi]

Of course I like op. 14!

[mistermoe]

Of course I like op. 14!

Yeah! That makes 5!

[djealnla]

I really like this post: 

https://richatkinson.blogspot.com/2009/11/mozart-vs.html

[mistermoe]

I really like this post: 

But do you like the op.14?

[djealnla]

But do you like the op.14?

I like all of Beethoven's sonatas, though not all of them equally (which is rather obvious).

[ramseytheii]

What rethinking?  There was not an original thought in that post, it sounds like badly reguritated 19th century criticism.  In the end, it amounts to vague complaints about craftsmanship (no examples) and strange comparisons with minor pieces (without details), and the person basically saying he just doesn't like it.  So?  Why anyone would get drawn into a "controversy" like this, without any substance at all, is beyond me!

Walter Ramsey

[argerichfan]

^ I thought I made that clear in my earlier post... at least we agree.  I fail to see where Beethoven's Op. 14 has anything to do with this, but whatever...

[thorn]

To me it sounds like a 12 year old's response to a thread on the Sonata purely to try and appear controversial. The type of 12 year old who "learned this piece in a day"... in fact the type of 12 year old who would refer to it as a "song".

Total waste of a read.

[birba]

I bet it was anafressi who wrote that article. 

[mistermoe]

I fail to see where Beethoven's Op. 14 has anything to do with this, but whatever...

Me too, but i thought it would distract from that absolutely meaningless article 
So....you like the op.14 i hope!

[argerichfan]

Me too, but i thought it would distract from that absolutely meaningless article 
So....you like the op.14 i hope!

I love the Op. 14 sonatas! 

[mistermoe]

I love the Op. 14 sonatas! 

 

[birba]

Getting back to the subject in hand, I was looking at the manuscript copy of the sonata, and his first ending which he then cancelled is the most banal and redundant resolution to the piece.  It's interesting that this was his "gut" response, but after pondering it and thinking it out, he came up with the most ingenious and revolutionary solution.  Now, you can really see and hear the cycle form.  Really fascinating!

[liordavid]

No, we are three!  Beautiful and charming sonatas   

i love them