Is it possible to orchestrate any piano piece?

[xvimbi]

There are famous pieces for piano that also exist in orchestrated versions. The prime examples are probably Grieg's Peer Gynt Suites and Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. The orchestrated versions are much more popular than than (solo) piano versions.

Question #1: Why is this so? Perhaps, because the orchestra is just so much more versatile an instrument than the piano and therefore more suitable and powerful to convey musical messages. Any thoughts?

Question #2: Is it possible to orchestrate any piano piece and come up with a "better" version? What would "better" mean? Would it mean "more popular" or "more powerful", "more convincing"? There are wonderful orchestrated versions of Satie's Gymnopedies that are very touching, in fact more touching than the original versions.

Question #3: What can the piano do that an orchestra could not?
I wonder how Beethoven sonatas would sound if properly orchestrated...

[Hmoll]

There are famous pieces for piano that also exist in orchestrated versions. The prime examples are probably Grieg's Peer Gynt Suites and Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. The orchestrated versions are much more popular than than (solo) piano versions.

Question #1: Why is this so? Perhaps, because the orchestra is just so much more versatile an instrument than the piano and therefore more suitable and powerful to convey musical messages. Any thoughts?

Question #2: Is it possible to orchestrate any piano piece and come up with a "better" version? What would "better" mean? Would it mean "more popular" or "more powerful", "more convincing"? There are wonderful orchestrated versions of Satie's Gymnopedies that are very touching, in fact more touching than the original versions.

Question #3: What can the piano do that an orchestra could not?
I wonder how Beethoven sonatas would sound if properly orchestrated...

Answer to #1: No, because the specific pieces lend themselves to orchestration, and the orchestrators - Ravel, etc. - were very good.

Answer to question #2: No. Can you imagine the Liszt Bminor sonata for orchestra. Could you you imagine Chopin's F minor Ballade for orchestra? Some pieces can be orchestrated, some can't very successfully.

Answer to question #3: Not much. The piano has a unique sound, and technique, though, and music that is well written in an idiomatic way for the piano, are best not orchestrated.

[xvimbi]

Answer to #1: No, because the specific pieces lend themselves to orchestration, and the orchestrators - Ravel, etc. - were very good.

I wonder if that's really the case. Granted, one would need good orchestrators, but what makes a piece suitable for orchestration? Take Grieg's Lyric Pieces, for example. They are perfect solo piano pieces, yet their orchestrated versions are incredibly powerful. I begin to think that any solo piece could successfully be orchestrated.

Answer to question #2: No. Can you imagine the Liszt Bminor sonata for orchestra. Could you you imagine Chopin's F minor Ballade for orchestra? Some pieces can be orchestrated, some can't very successfully.

Could it be that we are just so accustomed to the solo versions that we couldn't think of an orchestrated version until we actually heard one and thought "wow, that doesn't sound all that bad"?

[DarkWind]

It all boils down to the tone sounds. I just bought a book on Orchestration which is really insightful and helpful. Thing about it like this: On which instrument would an incredibly fast and soft run sound better on? Piano or Harp? Which instrument could be better used for forceful, strong, powerful sections? Brass and Timpani, or Piano? Which would be better for a soft, melodic, part? Flutes and other woodwinds, or Piano? Which has a stronger brilliance and an almost human voice? Violins or Piano? Which can best convey emotions based solely on the sounds when put together, Orchestra or Piano? But, which instrument has small indiosyncracies that make it much more useful for some parts, like a pedal, or the largest range of pitches? Piano or Orchestra? And which instrument can, say, rubato, be best played on? Piano or Orchestra? Think about these for a while, and it all makes sense. Does this mean the orchestra is superior to the piano? Not necessarily. I can't imagine the Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos being played on any other instrument ! It is in a way a supplement to the orchestra. The piano is much more easier to write for, or at least faster, usually. Orchestral pieces take amazing amounts of time to compose. The piano also has certain qualities which make it better for some areas better than any orchestral combination. Also, a funny thing to consider is that with a rather expensive grand piano, you could probably buy one of the necessary orchestral instruments instead, and end it might end up costing you less!

Answer to question #2: No. Can you imagine the Liszt Bminor sonata for orchestra?

I could, actually, very easily in fact. I have all the instruments and sounds sorted in my head, but would never be able to write them down. In fact, it sounds spectacular as an orchestra! If only others could hear what I hear. It would start off like Liszt's Les Preludes. The notes are staccatissimo, so I would use Cello Pizzicato. Then we would use arco for the next few notes. Repeat process. Then the final two pizz. notes, followed by a large tutti of the orchestra for the quick crescendo. After a part of that, with a short rest and then violins play that softer part. Then we have a long rest, which is followed by a small bass rythm using cellos. The melody would be brass. Then come the fast arpeggios downwards. They would be woodwind. Then comes back the loud motif, which would have basically a tutti, followed by the bass rythm which leads to the next new part, fast arpeggios(strings and woodwind) and a leading motif(brass), which comes to the right hand playing a faint melody and the left hand on the higher registers playing a simple but demonic melody, would be replaced by: Left hand melody with brass, the right hand would be woodwinds and strings. I could keep on going! Kind of fun.

[willcowskitz]

#1
People want "sound quality" and sometimes value it over the actual music. This could be one reason for why orchestrated pieces are more easily appreciated, same as it is for some people difficult to enjoy MIDI music to least extent.

#2
Liszt's 2nd Hungarian rhapsody was orchestrated in D minor but the versions I've heard never really did what the original piano version did, there was something lacking, integrity of the elements I think (look #3), and temperament. More instruments give colour to the melodies and variations and can bring out independent melodies from where on piano it would just be in background accompanying the main melody, which on the other hand also means that...

#3
...it is easier to achieve harmony on listening to piano than several different instruments, as it is slightly easier to tune an instrument given the base note from another instrument of same kind.