F Sharp Major or D Sharp Minor?

[crawf1ac]

Ok, I am trying to teach myself theory since I can't afford to go to school, and I'm trying to figure something out.

Scriabin's Etude op 8 no 12 (Sorry for being cliche) is in the key of D sharp minor. But, the the key signature, according to how the sharps are placed, is F sharp major. 

Then I start thinking, maybe it's supposed to be Eb minor...nope.

Can someone explain to me why the key signature LOOKS like it's for F sharp major but actually for D sharp minor? How am I supposed to know what key a piano piece is in? Are there exceptions or something?

So frustrated

[Bob]

The key signature is the same.  d# minor is the relative minor of F# Major and vice versa -- F# is the relative Major of d# minor. 

There are some more threads on identifying the key of a piece, but some quick ways to tell -- Look at the last chord -- That's usually the tonic. 

With key signatures, if it's a Major or minor key, for Major you can use the second to last flat or go up a half step from the last sharp.  Once you've got that, it's easy to find the relative minor.  And eventually you just memorize them all. 

On the piano d# minor is the same as eb minor.  In reality, they're a little different, esp so for string players.  At least that's what I've heard.  They're essentially the same for me.  I find flats a little easier to read though.  Sharp minor keys start getting double sharps.

[crawf1ac]

I read that whole thing and it just makes no sense.
Relative minor? What does the relative mean for that? Are the scales related? How do you find the relative minor/major for a chord???

I'm not naturally cut out for piano, obviously. I should just stick to playing Kesha renditions on crappy pianos and claim, "I have never had lessons and I can't read sheet music" and get 1,203,342 views on youtube with 45,000 subscribers.

[birba]

Definitely d-# minor.

[keyboardclass]

I'm not naturally cut out for piano, obviously. I should just stick to playing Kesha renditions on crappy pianos and claim, "I have never had lessons and I can't read sheet music" and get 1,203,342 views on youtube with 45,000 subscribers.

I often forget there's a real world out there.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The relative minor is the minor key with the same key signature as its related major.

E.g.

no sharps or flats: C maj / A min
  # : G maj / E min
 ## : D maj / B min
etc
  b : F maj / D min
 bb : Bbmaj/ G min
etc

In tonal music you can usually tell whether the piece is in a major or minor key by examining the harmonies. Tonic harmonies where the third is a minor third above the root note (e.g. C# E G#, Moonlight sonata) indicate minor, harmonies where the third is a major third above the root (e.g. Db F Ab, Raindrop prelude) indicate major. WIth experience you will be able to establish tonality aurally. It's important to consider context: the first (broken) chord of the Moonlight could in theory be chord VI in E major but it rapidly becomes apparent there is nothing major key about the music.

The seventh note of the scale (leading note) is also often a giveaway e.g. the usage of B# in the Moonlight or C## in the Scriabin.

[stevebob]

crawf1ac, please don't despair.  Remember that any topic we approach as novices tends to seem infinitely complex (even though it’s not), so just take it slowly and try not to be overwhelmed.

There are lots of sources (online and otherwise) of information about the basics of music theory.  In the meantime, you might wish to check out Hanon’s The Virtuoso Pianist for some clarification of your immediate questions; Volume II of that work contains a section with scales in all key signatures (i.e., the major keys and their relative minors).

[oxy60]

Why play for free on youtube? Why don't go out and get some gigs, fill some clubs?

Much to the dismay of many on this board, there are musicians out there who can't read a note of music filling clubs and stadiums. (Getting their life together is another matter..)

[crawf1ac]

Wow thanks everyone, y'all are a cool group of people.

I'll try to keep on going and look at it in a different way. I just feel like if I teach myself, I'll learn things, but it will be in a less efficient way, that's what I am worried about.

And I practice most of Hanon's Virtuoso Pianist every day, and the scales is why I came on here to ask how they work !

We'll see what happens

[Bob]

A lot of people don't like Hanon on here.  It's only exercises the fingers. 


You can start a scale on any step of the scale.  Actually all of them are called "modes" too.  Ionian is equal to the Major scale.  Aeolian is equal to minor.  But all the other steps, starting on the other steps I mean, are also scales but they're called 'modes.' 

It might be easier to think scales instead of key signatures at first.  Instead of C Major, start on a instead for a scale and you a minor, in the natural form of that scale.  a b c d e f g a

[lalag]

crawf1ac

I'm not sure if anyone answered the question on how to determine the relative minor of the major key.

My understanding is that the relative minor is a minor third below the major key. 

With the key of C major, a minor third below C is A.  So the relative minor to C major is A minor. 

Another way to think of it is look at the keys on the piano and count backwards three half steps (including black keys) and you will find your minor. 

Hope this helps.

[keypeg]

C major is the relative major of A natural minor, which starts 3 notes below, or 6 notes above (same thing).  Both of these keys use exactly the same notes:
C major: ---C D E F G A B C
A minor. A B C D E F G A

We can use exactly the same key signature to have these notes.  That is why these two keys are "relative" to each other.  They share the same key signature because they use the same notes.   More often you'll see harmonic minor, which has a G# because the semitone from G# to A pulls more strongly to the tonic.  Since that G# is not in the key signature, you will see accidentals on the 7th degree note.  Therefore, if you wonder if the music is major or minor, figure out the relative minor (count down 3) and see whether the 7th leading to that note is being raised throughout most of the piece, using an accidental.

Music in minor mode will often end in a V-I cadence in that minor key.  So if it's in A minor you may see E7-Amin, but if it's in C major you'll see G7-C.  Minor keys have a different quality, often with a more sad or blue sound to them.  The tonic chord is minor, while the tonic chord of a major key is major.