My Thoughts on Piano Technique

[bledredwine]

Hello all,

My whole last 8+ years I've been struggling to find a direct connection with the piano so that I can make music, with little to no success up until this year.  At times, I would find the way, only to return to old habits the next morning (in which I would sound like trash again).  

I consider piano technique a topic that is so controvertial, and complicated.  I know that many consider it simply a matter of "using your ear", and while for some this may be the easiest way, it didn't work for me (On the contrary, violin came naturally when I was young and I could only focus on the sound).

Of course listening to the sound/tone/phrasing is vital, but without the correct channeling of the body, use of the key, it can be a frustrating unproductive journey.

Anyway, this year that all has finally started to change.  I have found that all along, I had been thinking about it the wrong way.  Of course different parts of my mechanism should be relaxed and making sure that they are utilized correctly is of importance, but moreso the way that I played the key was the major difference maker.

I have posted the points/thoughts that have helped me, and I apologize for the writing, I literally just wrote this out in the span of a few minutes.  Tell me what you all think and if you have any thoughts on this yourself.

1.  You play the rebound of the key, not try to play to the bottom of the key
as fast as possible.  

2.  In playing the rebound, you want the quickest of the attack to happen
at the sound point, not the bottom, hitting the bottom will create
tension (like punching a wall instead of giving power to the foam in front
of the wall for a rebound back).  It may help some even to aim for the top of
the key with their arm weight/etc, for this is where the hammer action begins
to create the tone via velocity to the string.

3.  In doing this, the hand can be shaped so that the knuckles are strong,
yet there is no tension, and it will hold its structure.  Ideally,
the perfect attack will come to rest right at the bottom so that you don't
"punch the wall" or hit the bottom of the key with the fastest part of the attack.
This will cause much tension and a lot more effort, plus a tone that is
harsh and doesn't sustain.  

Emphasized: The highest volume of sound is attained through the velocity of the
hammer hitting the string, which begins at the very top of the key and
peaks at the tone point, before the bottom.  It can be a great exercise
to keep the structure of the arm/wrist/fingers as one, though relaxed
like a (relaxed? err) hook hitting the keys and to aim for various parts
of the key until you find the loudest sound with a nice tone and a small
amount of effort.

I consider it of utmost importance to practice pianissimo scales at the top
of the key, trying to feel the rebound of each key.  

Fingers also shouldn't "attack" but should rather be in ballistic, or continuous
motion.  Even during slow practice, each finger may have a fast attack,
but there shouldn't be the thought of forceful attack as it will likely cause
tension.  

Physically what has helped me: "activating" the fingers simply by shaping them, or making a grabbing motion from the top knuckles until they can transmit the structural power from the arm through the wrist while the arm/wrist stay completely relaxed.  This can of course be done with flatter fingers but is more difficult to explain. 

[birba]

Some interesting thoughts.  You're going to have to explain this "playing on the rebound of the key". Just exactly what does that mean?  rebound means to bounce back.  How do you play that?  It sounds similar to the type of technique I use, but you're going to have to be more precise.  For example, you don't tallk about complete relaxation after each articulation, which is the very base of pianistic technique-.

[richard black]

All sounds a bit complicated to me. You're just required to get the keys down at the right time and the right speed. Preferably, of course, without hurting or tiring yourself. I mean, whatever works for you, of course, but then everyone goes about it in a slightly different way.

[lostinidlewonder]

Talking technique in words always gets confusing but it's a challenge.

1.  You play the rebound of the key, not try to play to the bottom of the key
as fast as possible.  

Unnecessary energy can be spent if we press too hard into a key which is already depressed as far as it goes however more often than not you can use a fully depressed key in context to the center of gravity of the hand which plays a single position which provides balance. Once the sound of the note has been created pressing into the note further is simply a waste of energy more often than not, however often we can press into an already depressed note as a point for pivoting, as a center for our hand to maintain balance and playing positions at a time. A depressed note also can be used as springs to our fingers, however you cannot feel this spring if you are pushing into a note too hard after you have hit the base.

2.  In playing the rebound, you want the quickest of the attack to happen
at the sound point, not the bottom, hitting the bottom will create
tension (like punching a wall instead of giving power to the foam in front
of the wall for a rebound back).  It may help some even to aim for the top of
the key with their arm weight/etc, for this is where the hammer action begins
to create the tone via velocity to the string.

Hitting the bottom will generally cause tension if you are continuing the downward action when you have hit the bottom. We do not want to hit the bottom and want to keep going but feel the base, we should not avoid the base. We should not of course smash into the base and ram our finger into the note but use it as a spring board for our fingers to help us to our next note/position (and the black notes are more springy than the white since they are so much closer to the hand). If you need to create loud sounds you push into the note using your body, I tend not to think about it as the velocity of the hammer since this is a difficult speed to accurately measure, sinking into the notes create the volume not so much observing the speed of the hammer striking the note. To me it is like hitting a tennis ball and not considering the action before hitting the ball and merely watching the speed that the racket hits the ball. It is a derivative of what is more important.

3.  ....  the perfect attack will come to rest right at the bottom so that you don't
"punch the wall" or hit the bottom of the key with the fastest part of the attack.

Sometimes however it is impossible not come to complete rest at the bottom every single time but when you can do it, it should be applied as it conserves energy. Also it may feel like you are playing more in p ranges if everything you do never has solid contact with the base and you may obscure muscular memory of a phrase if you do not feel the base of a group of notes that you play, like arpeggio passages for instance need particular fingers to sink into the note to allow the hand to play the patterns with positional control.

Emphasized: The highest volume of sound is attained through the velocity of the
hammer hitting the string, which begins at the very top of the key and
peaks at the tone point, before the bottom.

Usually most pianos will sound the note only once the key is fully depressed unless you play in p ranges and some pianos have that mechanism which allows you to play the note without fully depressing the note (what is that called?). But when playing normal volume ranges that mechanism does not activate only when you are playing those soft ranges. So when you normally play usually you have to pretty much fully depress the note for it to make a sound. Some pianos might not require you to fully press the note down for a sound to come out, but you would have to press down at least 95% of the way. That 5% is a microscopic amount of time to control and its existence while playing measured in microseconds. However it is a point of fine tuning great efficient playing if you can hone in on this and always gently leave the base of the note, this may allow you to feel more of a springing action of the note as it is released which can aid the hand. It is however a small detail compared to the technique required before you get to that point.

Physically what has helped me: "activating" the fingers simply by shaping them, or making a grabbing motion from the top knuckles until they can transmit the structural power from the arm through the wrist while the arm/wrist stay completely relaxed.  This can of course be done with flatter fingers but is more difficult to explain.  

We can use our whole body to aid in the transmission of energy to the piano. A general visualisation might include: finger tips pppp range, the first knuckle ppp, 2nd knuckle pp, 1st knuckle p, under palm mp, above palm mf, wrist f, elbow ff, shoulder fff, back ffff. Transmitting energy from only one point in our body usually sets us up for tension as we have to treat our body like water and how it can flow through the channels of our body, arm and hand through to the branches of our fingers. The most efficient pianistic technique in piano is flattened fingers, curled fingers are old school if applied constantly it has its application but should be replaced with flattened postures whenever possible.

[fleetfingers]

The most efficient pianistic technique in piano is flattened fingers, curled fingers are old school if applied constantly it has its application but should be replaced with flattened postures whenever possible.

Really? I wish I could see what you are describing in words. Are you talking about flattened fingers like Horowitz? Or do you just mean not to curl your fingers too much?

I wonder sometimes if it even matters. Is one way or the other really more or less efficient? Perhaps what becomes more efficient for any given pianist is what he/she is used to (or has been trained to do). Again, I reference Horowitz.

But really, I didn't know curled fingers were 'old school'. Please explain...

[lostinidlewonder]

Really? I wish I could see what you are describing in words. Are you talking about flattened fingers like Horowitz? Or do you just mean not to curl your fingers too much?

Curled fingers or holding a ball in the hand posture, is old style of hand posture, you may find it suited for small positional changes or fingerings in Bach for instance. Flatten your fingers based on the Chopin natural hand form which the master taught himself as RH: E GbAbBb B and LH: F GbAbBb C. I was trained with the curled hand posture and changed myself to a more flattened style, no one taught me it as such, it is how my fingers developed as my technique improved and it allowed me to play more difficult passages without as much effort.

Flattened fingering allow generally more relaxed postures and transfer to the keyboard and one should strive for the posture where possible. This is not to say 100% of your playing is flattened, you use it intelligently, there is really no point in me listing off instances where it occurs as it is more useful for you to just see it in action in the piece you learn yourself. Flattened fingering does not mean fingers are stiff and straight, they are relaxed but extended with a small curl. But saying this in words is a bit general, pictures even are also too generalistic, it depends on your own hand in the end.

And like I said, talking about technique in words is confusing and not very useful unless you have a strong sense of technique yourself and know how the generalizations can be expanded upon into other subcategories. And because it is waaay too tiresome to try and explain all permutations of technique for the individual in words on a pianoforum I have to maintain a general approach. But the axiom, replace curled fingers with flattened postures when possible is very important as a matter of conserving energy while you play.

I wonder sometimes if it even matters. Is one way or the other really more or less efficient? Perhaps what becomes more efficient for any given pianist is what he/she is used to (or has been trained to do). Again, I reference Horowitz.

We all have different hands and experiences with the piano. Habits become very difficult to break however, those who neglect flattening their posture and continue to always use a curled form may be missing out postures that could further improve their technique. The same can be said for those who play everything flattened and never curl when required, some people have fatter fingers and they are forced to curl, others have slender fingers which can fit inbetween notes without fuss, so again it depends on the tools you physically have.

But really, I didn't know curled fingers were 'old school'. Please explain...

I like to consider curled fingers as old school because of how often one finds its application to Baroque music and classical. However when you move into the later periods flattened postures become more prevalent. For me it is a matter of observing the fingerings in the broad spectrum of music composed over the musical periods. I find more curling in older music and more flattening as we become more recent.

[stevebob]

nm

[prongated]

1.  You play the rebound of the key, not try to play to the bottom of the key
as fast as possible. 

2.  In playing the rebound, you want the quickest of the attack to happen
at the sound point, not the bottom, hitting the bottom will create
tension (like punching a wall instead of giving power to the foam in front
of the wall for a rebound back).  It may help some even to aim for the top of
the key with their arm weight/etc, for this is where the hammer action begins
to create the tone via velocity to the string.

3.  In doing this, the hand can be shaped so that the knuckles are strong,
yet there is no tension, and it will hold its structure.  Ideally,
the perfect attack will come to rest right at the bottom so that you don't
"punch the wall" or hit the bottom of the key with the fastest part of the attack.
This will cause much tension and a lot more effort, plus a tone that is
harsh and doesn't sustain. 

Emphasized: The highest volume of sound is attained through the velocity of the
hammer hitting the string, which begins at the very top of the key and
peaks at the tone point, before the bottom.  It can be a great exercise
to keep the structure of the arm/wrist/fingers as one, though relaxed
like a (relaxed? err) hook hitting the keys and to aim for various parts
of the key until you find the loudest sound with a nice tone and a small
amount of effort.

...

Physically what has helped me: "activating" the fingers simply by shaping them, or making a grabbing motion from the top knuckles until they can transmit the structural power from the arm through the wrist while the arm/wrist stay completely relaxed.  This can of course be done with flatter fingers but is more difficult to explain. 

Very interesting indeed. This in many ways reflect the way Marc Durand (past students include Louis Lortie, Marc-Andre Hamelin...) teaches technique. Having said that, this technique produces only few kinds of sound, out of many kinds of sounds that are possible on the piano. For instance, this kind will not produce sound that is most full of weight - velocity is not the only aspect that define what kind of sound you will generate.

You're going to have to explain this "playing on the rebound of the key". Just exactly what does that mean?

To explain point 2 further (if I understand the OP correctly), Marc likes to think of the keys as having 10mm of travel. You actually only have to go as far as 4mm of travel for the hammer to strike the keys, if you give it the proper velocity. This way, the jack in the piano action will not completely strike the hammer knuckle, and the sound you produce will be very consistently light. Go as far as 7mm and you hit that spot that you talk about - the sound point. Go to 10mm and beyond and the sound is *kaput*

I suppose that pedagogy in any field is concerned with how people can best acquire what does not come naturally to them.  What I find most mysterious is how we actually process all the prescriptive information we’ve learned about performing a complex task while performing it.  I can do it when using foreign languages, for example, but I am certain that thinking continuously about the physical aspects of what I’m doing and not doing!—and what I should and shouldn’t be doing—at the piano would be stressful and induce tension.

That is indeed the risk of finding technical approach(es) that work(s) for you. Personally it has meant a 5-year-long journey full of experimentation (based on various sources - many teachers, pedagogue writings, thinking, and heck, this very forum!) that is finally starting to take shape. I have learned (and am still learning) what is and isn't good to do, as well as what the various approaches can offer in sound. Bad habits still exist, but with practise I am confident I can iron them out so I can actually play the piano now

...And more importantly, when does it yield to transparent performance without deliberation and planning?...

That's why you practise, so what you've learned from your (perhaps informed) experimentations will become natural

[fleetfingers]

Thanks, lostinidlewonder, for responding. Like you said, it is difficult describing piano technique in words. What you wrote in your recent post makes sense and I think we are on the same page. I played with flat fingers (as in completely straightened knuckles) for three years. My teacher never corrected me. It was when I started seeing a new teacher that I was trained to curl my fingers. It was a long and painstaking process as I worked to break such an ingrained habit. Hence, my curiosity about what you said. Did I go through all of that for nothing? Was my first teacher right in letting me play with flat fingers? Should I not be correcting my students and teaching them to curl?

I, for one, like the discussions on technique even if it is not always clear what is being described. I find everyone's thoughts on this subject to be very interesting.

[claude_debussy]

Dear Bledred -

Flat fingers vs. curved fingers: you need to master both approaches.  Chopin op. 25 #1 can only be played with flat fingers.  Op. 25 #6 can only be played with curved fingers.

Here's the single most important aspect of mastering the piano which can be imparted in words:

Keep your fingertips as close to the keys as possible, in fact, touching the keytops if possible, resting on the keys when not playing, whether the fingers are curved or straight, left hand or right. 

Practice very slowly this way - it's not easy to master at first, but it will revolutionize your playing.

The "quiet hand" as some call it, is the hallmark of virtuoso playing. 

You cannot master the velocity, accuracy and rhythmic control necessary for excellent playing if your hands and fingers are wasting time and energy making extra movements, as all of us naturally do.

good luck,

Claude

[keyboardclass]

Bledred, you seem to have hit the nail on the head.  Matthay was saying much the same 100 years ago.  If you found it for yourself well done! https://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Matthay%20tobias

[slow_concert_pianist]

There are three considerations for concert perforance:

Risk - Am I willing to take the chance?

Memory - Will it fail me?

Passion - is this really me after all?

Three positives - YOU'RE A STAR!!!!!!

[stevebob]

Or a Legend in Your Own Mind. 

[bledredwine]

Birba - by playing the rebound of the key, I meant that if you have
control of the hammer on the descent with the correct acceleration, you
will feel a sort of weight or "rebound" against your finger,
as opposed to simply striking the key without control/sensitivity

Richard - you're right, but without these thoughts, I would be nowhere

Lostinidlewonder - Well done and thanks!

Prongated - that is so bizarre that you say that,
watching Hamelin is what started to give me these thoughts (no joke)
and I've been observing how efficient his playing is. 
It IS possible to get great tone in this method, tone is simply the
rate at which you control the acceleration of the "attack" and obviously
we have to use our ears for all of this.


Claude - that's fantastic advice and I agree wholeheartedly.  Actually,
one step that I didn't include in this which has helped me possibly more than the rest
is having my finger already on the key, and feeling a control at the top of
the key (usually it implies that arm weight is behind that finger) before
depressing the key.  Sometimes I practice by first making sure I have that
grip on the key, and then depressing it. 

Keyboardclass - no kidding?  Thanks!  I wish that there were easier ways
to teach this, or some system so that every human being could experience these
sensations themselves.  Perhaps some day.

[keyboardclass]

I wish that there were easier ways to teach this, or some system so that every human being could experience these sensations themselves.  Perhaps some day.

If you know what you're doing it's not hard to teach a beginner, others, unfortunately, have too many bad habits to overcome.