Need advice 6 year old daughter/ piano lessons

[dcb1]

Hi everyone. I'm hoping to get some advice for helping my 6 year old daughter practice. She’s had 30 minute weekly lessons for 6 months now. I love music myself and want to expose her to music…best case she really likes it and makes it part of her life and the worst case she tries it for a year or two, she ends up stopping, and she can add it to her life experience. I'm not expecting her to be a professional…just to enjoy music and have fun.

I've played a few instruments in my life and started playing piano when she started. (Different teacher and I play mostly after she goes to bed.) I love the piano and love playing/ practicing.

So here are the good things going on:
-she loves the piano
-loves lessons
-loves her teacher
-loves the idea of her being a piano player
-she is learning good stuff about rhythm, dynamics, and some other things that she is totally catching on too. She can also identify notes on the piano but hasn’t gotten to reading from a staff yet. (She is working through the Piano Adventures for Kids books.)

Unfortunately, here is the problem:
-she doesn’t like practicing and is not a good at it. I ask her to play and teach me what she learned during her lesson and have been able to get her to practice about 4 days a week for a very short amount of time (5 minutes)

-She isn’t particularly good (no surprise) because she doesn’t practice very much. And…more importantly, she doesn’t practice well.

-As an example…she plays something totally wrong. I try to help her understand and practice it correctly and she says…”Daddy, I know” and then does it wrong again. It is a frustrating exercise that I’m struggling with.

-If I ask her if she wants to stop taking lessons, she gets really upset and tells me she wants to keep playing. I tell her that if she wants piano lessons, she has to practice…otherwise it makes no sense to have the lessons.

So how do I work with her so she can learn how to practice? My goal is to stick with the 5 minutes but make it a quality 5 minutes and then work up from there.

I’ve talked with her teacher about this and it hasn’t gone very far. She is a great person, but a fairly inexperienced teacher in my opinion.

I would love to hear from you about some tips that could help me.

Thanks so much.

[m1469]

-She isn’t particularly good (no surprise) because she doesn’t practice very much. And…more importantly, she doesn’t practice well.

I'm interested in what you would think it means for her to be practicing well and for her to be good?

-As an example…she plays something totally wrong. I try to help her understand and practice it correctly and she says…”Daddy, I know” and then does it wrong again. It is a frustrating exercise that I’m struggling with.

I'm also curious what "totally wrong" means?  

-If I ask her if she wants to stop taking lessons, she gets really upset and tells me she wants to keep playing. I tell her that if she wants piano lessons, she has to practice…otherwise it makes no sense to have the lessons.

I would say that this is probably worth quite a bit at this point.

So how do I work with her so she can learn how to practice? My goal is to stick with the 5 minutes but make it a quality 5 minutes and then work up from there.

If it's going to be 5 minutes, I would say the quality part needs to be very specific (assignment from the teacher) and/or sheerly with the goal of enjoyment.

Even though parents can play a big role in the development of their child's musical life, the most success I've had with getting any students to practice comes straight from them.  I've had a few 5-7 year olds who find something in particular about music and the piano that they really like, and we talk in lessons about practicing and I write out for them what they need to do and parents will support that, but every time one of them really starts to 'get' how that works, it's been built upon that particular joy about music and the piano that they found (which will change over time, too.  Sometimes from one week/month to the next).  Rarely do I have an individual who actually just enjoys the work element of it, though there are a couple for whom that is somewhat motivating.

I feel like I've tried many things --short of actually doing backflips-- to get my students to like, love, enjoy piano and to want to practice.  I've held specialized studio classes to help build comradery between them and give them a chance to play their pieces and games together (never charging extra and often being flaked on or treated as though I'm inconveninecing the parents on their Saturday or Sunday).  I've had pizza parties, taken them to concerts free of charge, purchased literally thousands of dollars-worth of "things" to use in their lessons (part of a house refinance, even), taken them out for dessert to try to better bond with them, held studio recitals, played through many pieces for them to choose from, made cd's of music I thought they would like so they can pick out pieces for the future, created a lending library with books and dvd's that they can check out,  created a "piano buck" system where they can earn piano money for practicing and learning specific things (but they end up wanting the money without practicing) and then buy stuff with fake piano money that I actually pay for out of pocket, think of imaginative ways to think of the piano and explore it (sometimes it will really click in the lesson and the next week it's like flat soda).  We've looked inside my big grand piano, we've learned about other instruments, they can play "cool sounds" on the digital, etc.  And, I often spend quite a bit of time thinking about each individual, thinking about their piano self, their musical self, and them personally to try to think of ways to better connect with them and what kind of music it seems they do/might like ... they each bring a notebook for me to write their assignments in and most of them never read it.  haha ... I'm the one who's frustrated, believe me  .  

In any event, what I initially said is what I've found to be the most true.  It has to come from them.  Sometimes all of that effort I've made will help something click for somebody or motivate them for a week or a month or even a year or more ... but, it certainly doesn't make them love it and it certainly doesn't make them care about the rewards of practicing and practicing well.  I used to believe that everybody had this in them but it was sometimes just hidden away until the magic happens.  I've sadly had to come to realize that, even if everybody does have that somewhere in them, oftentimes the magic just doesn't happen.  However, I've seen some interesting changes in individuals that have sometimes been on the brink of quitting for months.  And why do I care anymore?  I honestly have no idea, to tell you the truth.  Probably mostly because music and piano matter to me.

So, in the meantime, be a good example.  Practice in front of her, play duets with her, build a more musical environment in the home.  If she loves *something* about it, build on that.

[dcb1]

What a great response. Thank you so much for taking the time to write the post. Let me answer some of the questions...

When she practices things wrong...here is the situation. She is playing some small songs that are written out with notes that have the note name on them. The page also shows left hand or right hand and finger numbers. Sometimes she plays it pretty well and other times, she plays the wrong notes and/or with the wrong hand. Then I try to correct her and she doesn't want to be corrected.

I think a quality practice session would be if she tried this same thing...got it wrong a few times, but then eventually could play all the right notes with the correct hands and in a rhythmic and somewhat musical manner.

I hope I'm not expecting too much. I have seen kids her age who can really play pretty well and musical talent debate aside, I would think at this level it has  a lot to do with how much effort the kid puts into it.

I get the fact that I can only provide the opportunity but not make her like practicing. I am, however, hoping that she will one day get hooked and decide that it is rewarding to practice, try hard, and play some music.

[lostinidlewonder]

Children do not like to be told that what they do is wrong but you can guide them to improvement with positive reinforcement. When I teach children I take out of my vocabulary any negative words, like wrong, no, not etc. Instead always talk about what is better not that what they are doing is not good. It is difficult to tune into the child to know how to transmit this because some are very sensitive to any changes to how they are currently doing something. A parent who knows their child better than a teacher knows how their child deals with change to their methodology/routine etc in life, it is perhaps very important as a parent to tell the teacher what your child is like, if they need help in certain areas more than others.

I have parents come to me telling me please be very strict with my child because they have a strict upbringing at home. However you get a lot of children who are very sensitive and any changes you try to make in them must constantly take care that it is not depressing or making them feel stupid. I try to strike up a friendship with my younger students, we always talk about their interests before lessons etc. They get little prize rewards related to their interests when they complete musical tasks I set them. Children like to play games, they don't like serious work, most of them at least are like this. Childhood is about having fun and playing games, when teaching most children you need to make them look at piano just like that, the difficult thing is to make them practice on their own, it is actually quite a lot to ask of a young child to be consistent with their practice routine and more often than not requires someone older to always watch over them while they practice.

Playing games with young students can last as long as it is required. Often they grow out of it but by that time they have already acquired a head start in their musical learning. Some young children learn piano for a very brief time and then never return to it because their experience with the teacher was not fun or encouraging. Where if you took in a young student, make the experience fun, they might stick with the music for longer and as they get older have such a head start over waiting until they where mature enough to study the piano seriously.

We often accept the notion that children do not know what is good for them and need to be told what to do. This is true more often than not however in learning something creative you must not suffocate the individuality in your young student. Let them do things which are not completely correct but make changes to their approach which points them in the correct direction. We do not have to force them into models of what is to be expected of a diligent student, let them grow up first then when they are ready to take that step you can make that change. The musical journey is forever various and changing, if you get comfortable with your routine and approach then you have stopped living and learning music. At the young age you must plant the seeds of discipline but don't expect it to sprout immediately, but certainly you need to set everything up and make it a positive experience.

You need to say things which challenges the child but at the same time does not put them down. You need to highlight that you think they can do better and have seen/heard them do better. They need to realize that they already have it in them to improve because you have noticed it before but at the moment they are not being careful enough to produce it (or doing it half heartedly). I use to play a game with one of my younger students, when they expressed the sad emotion I would pretend to cry, or if it was happy I would be happy. It makes them forget about you trying to improve their playing and when they don't do it right they don't get the reward of seeing their teacher being effected by the music so.

I would sometimes reward bad mistakes by joking around. Falling asleep and pretend to snore if they made the error over and over again or going ARRRRRGGGGG lol. Then when they finally do it somewhat right I might go Oh??? etc etc. You don't have to say in words its bad just make a sound is good enough but at the same time you don't want to make them feel like you are being serious about the sounds, it is for fun. I guess it depends on your personality as a teacher, I love teaching children and playing games with them, it makes the lesson much more productive and interesting for me and the student. You can sneak in knowledge through this medium, teach them without them even noticing it, making changes to their approach, technique, observation of the piano etc. The soft approach can work wonders and inspire a young student to continue with piano for the rest of their life, taking a hard approach with children can produce great results with the child that can deal with it but it has crushed and damaged too many more young minds than the good it has done.

Being soft doesn't mean you do not instill discipline in your student. I certainly mix a little bit of hard teaching with soft but I have to say I am predominantly soft. I only unleash some tough teaching when it is needed. If a student never practices I will make them practice in the lesson for me and I will get them to show me how they practice. Then I will tell them how to practice and force them through the drills, reconsidering and then repeating again. I have made at least all of my students sweat in a lesson or be totally exhausted once. As a teacher you need to know your students limitations of focus and push them to that limitation. For young children you need to be very careful when you do this and it needs to be in spurts during the lesson, grabing their attention for say 10 full minutes is already extremely difficult for most young minds. Then reward them with a break, maybe do something they can do easily, then finish off putting them through the disciplined routine again. A child needs to be guided and encouraged all the way during disciplined study of anything if they are to gain that habit when they grow older. The best place is to start when they are young but you must be wary of how you expose them to it. 99.999% of us are not disciplined naturally and we have to work on it, I would say however this is made a lot easier if you had an idea of what perseverance produces at a young age (and not only in the form of annoying mum and dad daily for toys or lollies or whatever else!). They are good in asking for what they want in life but when it comes to work they can easily ignore it. Call them up on that too I do all the time to my little students who I feel can remember every day to ask parents for money but can't remember to clean their own room every day or do household chores.


You have to learn to compliment the smallest of improvements in young students no matter how microscopic, forgive inefficiencies but don't let totally incorrect errors become habit. This is where as a teacher you have to know what you can let your student get away with, you do not want them to play within anyones preconception of mastery, it totally bores a young students mind, don't push for mastery, just let them carry on. Often it is a maturity, both in personality and musical ear training, the young mind has to realize that they don't always do things the best way and need to always improve, they also have to acquire a taste for sound, that is be interested in producing a good sound instead of just poking away at notes. I have found through teaching a lot of young children 4-7 that they need space to develop in this area and we should not hound them but constantly guide with positive reinforcement.

[m1469]

What a great response. Thank you so much for taking the time to write the post. Let me answer some of the questions...

haha, well, if you honestly got anything useful out of that you're welcome.  Although, I'd venture to say that Lostinidlewonder has a lot more wisdom to offer at this point.

On that note, I actually got myself ridiculously upset writing that post (one of my infamous surprise attacks) and I, once again, appreciate your input very much, Lostinidle.

[dcb1]

It makes sense. Nobody likes someone standing over their shoulder saying they are doing something wrong. (pretty much what I am doing)

I suspect my daughter likes her lessons so much because her teacher has a much different approach. My daughter has certainly gotten a lot better than when she started. Her technique is vastly improved and she has learned something.

I'm wondering if my expectations are not realistic. I have to admit that the only 6 year olds I have seen play the piano are the ones with videos on Youtube who may be the top 5% who have some natural talent and have the personality type that is ideal for piano. I've asked her teacher before how she is doing but it's hard to get a straight answer in a setting like that.

Thanks for the advice. It gives me some good things to think about. My heart is in the right place but I'm not sure I'm doing such a great job helping my daughter.

[m1469]

Yes!  I think your heart IS in the right place and I'm actually sure you are helping her, even if it doesn't seem like it.  I have some students who come in families, like three sisters, or a grandma and her two grandchildren (a boy and a girl).  And there is something about it for them in it being a family endeavor.  And then I have another student (just became a teenager though) who is actually more serious and her sister and mom play, as well.  And, actually, it's in these families where they take it the most seriously.  I have another set where the two (darling) sons come (okay, I *love* these guys, ages 5 and 7) and mom plays.  It can really make a difference, though it's not a magic recipe -- I just had a grandma and her 5 year old grand-daughter quit, for example.

But, yes, I think that what you mentioned in your last post is true.  My frurstrations as a teacher have stemmed from my silly ideals in having my studio be something like a conservatory (seriously), blooming with disciplined, well-rounded, developing musicians/pianists who all love with a passion what they're learning and what they're doing (for quite awhile, I seriously believed that this was just how everybody was naturally built deep inside).  It's just not.  Of course, in real life, if a magic finger scratches beneath the surface at an actual conservatory, it's not exactly like that there, either  :-.  In any respect, it doesn't mean something won't further click for her and at some point it will be closer to your ideal, but so far I haven't personally found the magic potion.  I'm secretly still thinking though .

Anyway, I appreciate that you care because sometimes parents really are not connected with it at all.

[tsveti]

Playing games with young students can last as long as it is required. Often they grow out of it but by that time they have already acquired a head start in their musical learning. Some young children learn piano for a very brief time and then never return to it because their experience with the teacher was not fun or encouraging. Where if you took in a young student, make the experience fun, they might stick with the music for longer and as they get older have such a head start over waiting until they where mature enough to study the piano seriously.

Games are totally great for that age 

[mcdiddy1]

Being creative and creating games is clearly the best route to go. Try these ideas. Practice musical concepts away from the piano with them first. For example play a game of simon says... where you echo rhythms. It could be on cover of the piano, clapping, on your knees, with your mouth, Using the rhythms in her music. When it comes time to play, say remember this rhythm....etc.

Use your voice. Sing with the notes. It does not have to be the note names. If your piano book has words, which many of them do , kids can love singing. WHen you get them sing and then have them play it on the piano, many times the kids will stop themselves and say that doesnt sound right. When you finished singing, sing and play on the piano for them and they will see, yea thats right. Start them with the tune aural in their head.

Play number games  where you hold up a finger and then they number them. Do your best to trick them and tell them that. Many kids are competive and will focus more intently.

No matter what the student played there is always something right in how they played. They may have sat with good posture, played the correct rhythm, played the notes, dynamics, character. When they do, praise them immedietly so they will keep doing it

Teack them to move to music. WHen you point to a high note, they raise their handsm when you point to a low note the move them lower. Teach them to read directional and make it game. All of this can be done before they even played a piece. All of a sudden they have an understanding of the music even before they played on the piano, had fun doing it, and they are better prepared to play the music. Teaching is all about preparing the student to have success. We get in trouble when we expect a student to play something perfectly does not have the background or experience in reading an adult or older child does. We are not made equal so some kids pick up faster than others ( often because of musical background and modeling rather than pure musical innate talents) so you shouldnt compare to others. The first and most important step is the motivation and it seems she has that. You just have to nurture it by finding ways she is successful and she will improve

[aintgotnorhythm]

I have 3 kids at various stage of learning piano and other instruments. You are already in a good place with your daughter - she likes the piano, she likes going to lessons, she likes her teacher and she is improving. I would say at her age don't jeopardise it by applying too much pressure, instead think of ways to make it more fun.

Get a cheap electronic keyboard and a melodica she can play with, at worst she might have some fun with them and at best they will help reinforce her keyboard skills. Find some duets or play along music suited to her interests for beginners, maybe take her to the store to choose it herself (we have Disney/High School Musical/Abba, etc.). If there is an opportunity for her to make music with other children, take it (not necessarily on the piano, e.g. my daughter who is now nine started at 6 as a beginner with the violin group of the local youth orchestra and it has helped generally with learning to read music/sight reading/keeping time, etc.). Sooner or later she will naturally start to practice by herself, and my experience is you can't force it to happen.

[cuckoo]

I am learning a lot from reading all your posts here from the teachers' perspective.  I am trying to find a good combination of strict and soft approach in piano teacher myself.  And yes, I believe it would be nice to be able to have the right balance.  

Speaking from the parent's perspective, I want my children to love, enjoy music and play a musical instrument.  But I see children nowadays are impatience, they look for instant gratification, for example, playing computer games.  Unlike "playing" piano, it requires numerous years of perspiration and endurance of pain.  So the pattern is that they like to play those lovely piano music but they don't like to practise and so there goes...we have a problem!  So what do you do?  For me, I play along with them, do a duet, games, ask them what do they want to learn to play, communicate with the piano teacher.  There are in fact some great ideas that have suggested in previous posts as well.

So hang on, I believe it's worth it!