Quasi-Faust

[xtraheat]

Hi, I am beginning a serious attempt at learning the Quasi Faust movement from Alkan's Sonata. I understand the difficulties involved, but I am confident that I can manage the chordal passages. However, I literally can not make sense of the fugue. Is it actually supposed to be played as written? Because if it is, it seems physically impossible. Not just exceedingly difficult, but literally unplayable. There are holds with big jumps above them and two other voices playing at the same time in one hand, and the same stuff in the other. Are some of the holds supposed to be ignored? Also, if anyone has any comments of their own about this piece, I would like to hear them. Thanks

[birba]

It looks pretty unplayable to me, too.  That's probably why he wrote a "facilité".  I've never played it though.  way out of my league.   

[ahinton]

Hi, I am beginning a serious attempt at learning the Quasi Faust movement from Alkan's Sonata. I understand the difficulties involved, but I am confident that I can manage the chordal passages. However, I literally can not make sense of the fugue. Is it actually supposed to be played as written? Because if it is, it seems physically impossible. Not just exceedingly difficult, but literally unplayable. There are holds with big jumps above them and two other voices playing at the same time in one hand, and the same stuff in the other. Are some of the holds supposed to be ignored? Also, if anyone has any comments of their own about this piece, I would like to hear them. Thanks

A pianist once commented to me that trying to prepare this movement is like being a victim of a pianistic terrorist, but do try to persevere - the end result, if you can manage it, will be more than well worth the effort. Marc-André Hamelin would agree, I'm sure. In the end, I reckon that you'll end up finding that this fugue is a lot harder to read than it is to perform once you've mastered it; the notation, whilst I am not necessarily seeking to criticise it pejoratively per se, might strike some as rather off-putting, so all that I would advise is to keep concentrating on the musical content and not worry about the way in which it is notated beyond the fact that any perceived notational discouragement is to be overcome for the sake of the music.

That said, whilst this movement is self-evidently a fantastic tour de force in its own right, both musically and pianistically, its sheer power of expression never quite reaches its zenith other than in the context of the four-movement sonata as a whole; the close connections with Beethoven sonatas in the two movements that follow it (respectively the second movements of Op. 109 for piano and Op. 102 for cello and piano) are not to be undermined in any overview of the work as a whole.

Good luck!

Best,

Alistair

[xtraheat]

Thank you very much for your extensive response! I will keep that in mind as I am learning it, and I certainly hope to persevere and get this up to performance level at some. One example of what I was talking about notes being unplayable can be found on this excerpt I found on Wikipedia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Quasi-Faust_fugue_-_Alkan.png   

Aside from the almost comically difficult counting issues, that low E (I think it's an E, I can't really tell the ledger lines from this score) near the end of the first measure in the right hand can't be accessed by either hand. Would you just leave that out or jump down to it off-rhythm?

[xtraheat]

I will add that I am learning this piece to hopefully play in a competition about this time next year. This piece is so massive and overwhelming that I am having to base my whole repertoire around it, but it will all certainly be worth once I have this beast learned! It is probably my favorite piece, and while I don't think I would want many other pieces to be on such a truly massive scale, this works perfectly and creates a sound unlike any other piece I've ever heard. It manages to be beautiful without an entrancing melody, simply due to its' sheer power. I have one other quick question: Do people learn this movement (or the sonata for that matter) very often? It's not very well known, so I'm just curious.

[richard black]

Raymond Lewenthal, in his preface to a reprint of some Alkan works put out a few years ago, comments of that fugue, 'By this point you will wish you were two quid and an octopus'. Coming from someone who had actually played it, that pretty much says it all. It isn't quite playable as written but one can get pretty close and the overall effect works well.

[birba]

I will add that I am learning this piece to hopefully play in a competition about this time next year. This piece is so massive and overwhelming that I am having to base my whole repertoire around it, but it will all certainly be worth once I have this beast learned! It is probably my favorite piece, and while I don't think I would want many other pieces to be on such a truly massive scale, this works perfectly and creates a sound unlike any other piece I've ever heard. It manages to be beautiful without an entrancing melody, simply due to its' sheer power. I have one other quick question: Do people learn this movement (or the sonata for that matter) very often? It's not very well known, so I'm just curious.

I really envy you.  I've been listening to various youtube presentations just to get to know the piece.  And I have to say, I still don't get it.   

[xtraheat]

I think one reason I like it is just because it is such a unique, no-holds barred piece. I am a strong believer in musicality>technicality, but this piece is just so over the top and outright virtuosic that I think that it is a joy to listen to. Not only that, but it never sounds like an etude... The technique is backed by real music. I honestly don't think that there is a bigger passage in all of piano music than the section following the fugue, and it all just culminates into what i think is a very interesting and beautiful (in its' own way) piece.

[birba]

Back to the listening room.  I'll let you know...

[birba]

Nope.  Nothing.  absolutely nothing.  I don't hear the "real music".  I feel like I'm living in a fish-bowl and people are talking and raving about this quasi-faust but I can't hear it.   When I think of the magnificence of the liszt sonata, which basically expresses the same subject, and it's wide wide spectrum of colors and sonorities, I don't understand how anyone can appreciate this.  I know I'm going to be skinned alive for saying this, but I just don't get it. 

[orangesodaking]

Nope.  Nothing.  absolutely nothing.  I don't hear the "real music".  I feel like I'm living in a fish-bowl and people are talking and raving about this quasi-faust but I can't hear it.   When I think of the magnificence of the liszt sonata, which basically expresses the same subject, and it's wide wide spectrum of colors and sonorities, I don't understand how anyone can appreciate this.  I know I'm going to be skinned alive for saying this, but I just don't get it. 

I'm a huge Alkan fan, and only until very recently did I think I got (at least part of) it. Have you listened to the Grand Sonate all the way through? I recommend Smith or Reach.

I want to learn the whole Symphony for Solo Piano. The first, second, and third movements are easily within the scope of my limits, and I'm pretty sure the fourth is, too. We'll see soon enough. I've already got a nice dent knocked into the first movement (including the coda, which I can do at full speed).

Good luck with Quasi-Faust!

[birba]

Well, I sat through the whole thing following along with the music, and I still feel like I've missed the boat.  I have to say that Ronald Smith was one fine pianist.  I enjoyed it more then the Hamelin who I listened to in the first movement - way too fast, I think and didn't bring out those accents.
I probably enjoyed the third movement most of all.  Very poetic.  Echos of Berlioz throughout the whole sonata.  I could barely sit through the last movement and had to control my hand from mousing ahead.  Really THAT slow?!
Anyway, I feel like I've had my full of Alkan at the moment...
Thanks for the smith recomendation!

[orangesodaking]

Third movement is my favorite.

I've always enjoyed the Sonante de Concert Op. 47 and Symphony for Solo Piano from Op. 39 more than the Grande Sonate, I think.

[ahinton]

Third movement is my favorite.

I've always enjoyed the Sonante de Concert Op. 47 and Symphony for Solo Piano from Op. 39 more than the Grande Sonate, I think.

Those two are obviously more mature Alkan works than the Grande Sonate, although I've never quite gotten over a sense of wry amusement that the cello sonata - one of the finest 19th century ones after Beethoven - opens as though Alkan decided to ask his friend Mendelssohn to start it for him!...

Best,

Alistair

[orangesodaking]

Those two are obviously more mature Alkan works than the Grande Sonate, although I've never quite gotten over a sense of wry amusement that the cello sonata - one of the finest 19th century ones after Beethoven - opens as though Alkan decided to ask his friend Mendelssohn to start it for him!...

Best,

Alistair

It was probably Alkan showing a bit of a tribute to Mendelssohn (which he had already done in the Op. 38 chants and would do later with the Opp. 65, 67, and 70).

By the way, you're in a book I'm reading!
So, how does it feel to be famous?