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Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando (Read 9005 times)

Offline riskarb

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Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
« on: November 11, 2010, 01:48:40 AM »
This is just work in progress, but thought I'd post it for laughs:



Criticism is welcome (tho I'll probably ignore it).

And posting of other peoples FAIL vids even more welcome ;)

All the best,
rob


piano sheet music of Piano Concerto 2


Offline ponken

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 09:11:25 AM »
Nah, don't be hard on yourself. You are doing fine. You probably just need more work on it. Since I haven't played this myself I can't give any specific criticism but I enjoyed listening and watching. Bravo!

Offline birba

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 01:33:04 PM »
OH come on!  That was great!  After all, it IS a work in progress, as you said, but you gave it that spirit and life that is essential in the beginning when you start studying a new music. Personally, I don't know how you do it on one of those Digital pianos(?).  I'm sure the action is very good, the sound is alright, etc.  But when you go to a regular piano, do you have any problems?

Offline prongated

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 04:01:40 PM »
Hey, it sounds nice! You have the ability to play this piece well! There are 2 technical aspects that can be tweaked to make it even better, but whatever!

Offline birba

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 04:34:57 PM »
Is that one of those old photos of Liszt in the background?

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 05:44:12 AM »
Thanks for watching and for not ragging on me! (was expecting the worst)

Nah, don't be hard on yourself. You are doing fine. You probably just need more work on it. Since I haven't played this myself I can't give any specific criticism but I enjoyed listening and watching. Bravo!

Thank you!

OH come on!  That was great!  After all, it IS a work in progress, as you said, but you gave it that spirit and life that is essential in the beginning when you start studying a new music. Personally, I don't know how you do it on one of those Digital pianos(?).  I'm sure the action is very good, the sound is alright, etc.  But when you go to a regular piano, do you have any problems?

Thank you! This was a very good digital piano (Clavinova CVP 509). Action is ok (like a Kawaii) but the weighting sucks.....ultra light and very tough to control speed+volume. I can play it much better and more controlled on a good acoustic. I live in Hong Kong though so there isn't room for one!

Hey, it sounds nice! You have the ability to play this piece well! There are 2 technical aspects that can be tweaked to make it even better, but whatever!

PLEASE tell me what those tweaks are! I haven't seen a teacher for 18 years and I don't have friends that play at a decent level so everything is self-taught and I'm flying blind. Would totally appreciate any tips you have for playing better. I know what I need to do on the artistic/interpretative side .... but it's the technique itself that I really need to figure out first before I tackle those. Thanks in advance!

Is that one of those old photos of Liszt in the background?

It's actually Elton John (wearing a hat)!.... and Gershwin there in the foreground.


Offline prongated

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 04:41:21 PM »
PLEASE tell me what those tweaks are! I haven't seen a teacher for 18 years and I don't have friends that play at a decent level so everything is self-taught and I'm flying blind. Would totally appreciate any tips you have for playing better. I know what I need to do on the artistic/interpretative side .... but it's the technique itself that I really need to figure out first before I tackle those. Thanks in advance!

O.o a very interesting turn-around from your initial post ;)

Anyway, the first is, you like to randomly lift up your hands with your wrist (e.g. 0:29). It may be intentional, or it may be bad habit, or it may be something you're unconscious of, but if possible get rid of it. It doesn't help you produce any better sound and may only produce unnecessary tension.

The second is something you need a teacher for instructions, but basically in the big sections you're using only the available apparatus from your forearms forward. On a digital piano the volume really depends on the, well, volume button, but on a real piano it depends on not just the velocity at which you press the keys, but also the kind of weight you put on the keys, and how you put it on.

Offline emill

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 05:58:12 PM »
not bad!!!   not bad at all!!  I think your too critical on yourself.. ;D
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 03:17:38 AM »
^ thanks, this is actually one of the easier parts of the concerto in my opinion ... so if i were to record the more painful parts for you, you'd unequivocally agree! ;)

O.o a very interesting turn-around from your initial post ;)

Anyway, the first is, you like to randomly lift up your hands with your wrist (e.g. 0:29). It may be intentional, or it may be bad habit, or it may be something you're unconscious of, but if possible get rid of it. It doesn't help you produce any better sound and may only produce unnecessary tension.

The second is something you need a teacher for instructions, but basically in the big sections you're using only the available apparatus from your forearms forward. On a digital piano the volume really depends on the, well, volume button, but on a real piano it depends on not just the velocity at which you press the keys, but also the kind of weight you put on the keys, and how you put it on.

Well taken, thank you. I welcome technical advice anytime (versus a treatise on the *snooty sounding* "thematic sub-text counter-polyphony" I'm ignoring). My one gripe with classical music is that we're playing music that's been played a billion times before..... we can get lost in minutae of interpretation (like thousands before us) or we can play it honestly, as we think it should sound.... and who knows, maybe even re-define the piece in the process.

On the wrist-lifts..... interesting.... didn't know I was doing that and I didn't know it was a bad habit. I think I do this to make the notes sound a little more detached than normal and I would have thought the wrist muscles are a little more quick/rapid-fire than if I were to move my whole arm. Will give it a try!

As for not moving the rest of my body. Noted as well. That's definitely a function of playing it on a digital piano where one can hit the loudest sound without needing much body movement. I'm slightly more animated on an acoustic, esp in the slower sections where such body movement doesn't compromise balance and the ability to cover alot of space on the keyboard.

When I was a kid, I competed against this girl who who was so f*cking melodramatic with her Chopin Nocturnes..... (she was literally kissing the keys) so I'm a bit stigmatized in this respect. Thankfully, she got her hair caught in the piano one time and I felt partially vindicated.  ;D


Offline pianist37

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 02:35:02 PM »
Hi Rob,
Rachmaninoff Concerto Nr.2 being my favorite piece of music, I can never get enough listening to it. Your technique is good, but please put in a little more of the composers romanticisme.  ;) ;) ;)
Kind regards,
Margot

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 09:06:29 AM »
Hi Rob,
Rachmaninoff Concerto Nr.2 being my favorite piece of music, I can never get enough listening to it. Your technique is good, but please put in a little more of the composers romanticisme.  ;) ;) ;)
Kind regards,
Margot

Thanks Margot :) (Pilipina ka ba?)

I agree. That performance was rather rushed/mechanical..... especially in the main theme. (I blame it on nerves... the minute I press the record button on the camera I tense up and just fly on auto-pilot).

The next time will definitely be more 'romantic'..... complete with puffy artist shirt and chest hair



Offline birba

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 01:14:08 PM »
 

The next time will definitely be more 'romantic'..... complete with puffy artist shirt and chest hair



[/quote] YESSSSSSSSSS! ;D

Offline coasterider

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 05:21:06 PM »
Rob, I enjoyed seeing your YT rehersal/performance of my all-time favorite music selection.  Just remember that Liberace smiled like his mistakes were perfectly normal and made a lot of money doing so. I'm ordering the sheet music for what you played and will spend the rest of my life trying to learn to play it.  Haven't played since 1961. 

Offline becky8898

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 08:43:07 PM »
Hey Rob - nice job - really.  Except - of course there is an except.  And remember I dont really know diddly about you.  But - based on what you said about hitting the recording button. Play in public more.  Record more, alot more.  Get used to that camera being on you.  I have seen lots of cool pianists, who where great in private and as soon as you put them in front of an audience or tried to record them - they just went all blewy. Keep up the great great work.

Cheers, Becky

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 03:24:35 AM »
Hey Rob - nice job - really.  Except - of course there is an except.  And remember I dont really know diddly about you.  But - based on what you said about hitting the recording button. Play in public more.  Record more, alot more.  Get used to that camera being on you.  I have seen lots of cool pianists, who where great in private and as soon as you put them in front of an audience or tried to record them - they just went all blewy. Keep up the great great work.

Cheers, Becky

thanks alot Becky! It means alot coming from a good pianist. Totally agree with what you wrote.... I'm definitely in that class of individuals who could put on a decent private performance but bugger it up on the big stage (probably vomit too)..... I'll definitely plan on recording/performing more once I get it nailed down. Right now, I'm trying to find small groups of performers/keen listeners where I live so we can have jam-sessions and work-out all our of our public performance demons together.... tough to find!

I'm ordering the sheet music for what you played and will spend the rest of my life trying to learn to play it.  Haven't played since 1961. 

You rock coasterider! That's friggin AWESOME..... wishing you nothing but the best in your pursuit!!!!! 

Share your progress if you can once in a while (either on YT or here)...... I'll definitely be a fan no matter how slow the progress is.


Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 07:22:44 PM »
Took the first phrase of the Adagio (first 20 seconds here) and re-patterned the notes into something a little more modern.



Go easy hardcore rach fans..... don't slay me!!   ;)


Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 08:52:00 PM »
You are doing fine. I think both ur videos are excellent.
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline philb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 05:14:37 AM »
Did you ever finish the concerto? I would love to hear the 3rd movement in it's entirety.  :)

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 06:53:59 AM »
Did you ever finish the concerto? I would love to hear the 3rd movement in it's entirety.  :)

Hi philb, i've 'finished' the 3rd movement but there are still a few chunks that sound like ass (e.g., the closing flourish in the recording above). I'll be sure to post it when it sounds half-decent! ;)

I've started on Rach 3 and have very limited time to practice.... so your request (and my friends who are asking me to play in public) is making me consider dropping it so I can clean up #2 and take care of unfinished business.

And pianoplayjl, thanks for the kind words. 


Offline philb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 07:08:26 AM »
Hi philb, i've 'finished' the 3rd movement but there are still a few chunks that sound like ass (e.g., the closing flourish in the recording above). I'll be sure to post it when it sounds half-decent! ;)

I've started on Rach 3 and have very limited time to practice.... so your request (and my friends who are asking me to play in public) is making me consider dropping it so I can clean up #2 and take care of unfinished business.

And pianoplayjl, thanks for the kind words. 



I wish you luck on the Rach 3, the 3rd movement is a giant.

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #20 on: November 09, 2011, 07:16:55 AM »
Just looking at what you played, you look like you have the technical capacity to go all the way with this Rachmaninoff Concerto (at least with this movement).

Looking forward to you posting videos of the other movements of Rach 2.
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Offline mike_lang

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #21 on: November 09, 2011, 04:28:30 PM »
thought I'd post it for laughs:

Are you kidding?

Offline riskarb

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #22 on: November 10, 2011, 06:54:44 AM »
I wish you luck on the Rach 3, the 3rd movement is a giant.

Thanks! Haven't reached the third movement yet ..... still slogging my way through the first. So far, I must say, Rach 3 isn't *as* difficult as everyone says it is (I find it technically easier than Rach 2).... but it is bloody dense and unrelenting.

Just looking at what you played, you look like you have the technical capacity to go all the way with this Rachmaninoff Concerto (at least with this movement).

Looking forward to you posting videos of the other movements of Rach 2.

Thanks.  My first movement is filled with holes but when I finally get around to it, I'll certainly upload the whole thing. I'm intending to do the whole concerto on one piano (performing both soloist and orchestral lines together) so it’s a bit of a chore to merge the two and get everything under my fingers…. I figure I’m playing 50% more notes than the soloist!

PS -  ANYONE in this forum can play Rach 2 (or Rach 3) or any piece really.... I've realized it's just about putting in the requisite number of hours with some measure of practice efficiency/concentrative ability.


Are you kidding?


No, why? Nearly all the vids I put up are for fun…….. I can play these pieces better than the uploaded versions but I figure there are enough serious recordings out there for the critics and performance monkeys. :)



Offline mike_lang

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2 - Allegro Scherzando
«Reply #23 on: November 10, 2011, 10:04:59 AM »
PS -  ANYONE in this forum can play Rach 2 (or Rach 3) or any piece really.... I've realized it's just about putting in the requisite number of hours with some measure of practice efficiency/concentrative ability.

How true, but how few know how to practice . . .