Dilemma with my piano teacher

[leah22]

I am basically an adult beginner at the piano but a really dedicated one who wants to go far with the piano exams (this time around). I live in Canada so we have a different examination system here (although it's very similar to the one in the UK called ABRSM). Through a stroke of luck (I don't know if it is anymore) I found a teacher who went to the top music school in the states (guess which one... rhymes with mulliard) having both a bachelors and masters degree in piano performance.

But here's the thing, he's completely unfamiliar with the exams I want to undertake. Not with the system, or really what's required. *I* have to do all the gruntwork of gathering the materials, figuring out what's being examined, poring over the syllabus - something a teacher who's well versed with ABRSM (or our equivalent) would be able to do for me... There's music theory involved in my exams too and while he does TRY to explain things to me it isn't in the clearest terms and he's even said that he hasn't had to think about stuff like that since he was a kid.

The way he teaches is kind of slaphappy too. He and I are becoming too buddy-buddy and the way he assigns homework is kind of willy-nilly. It's not systematic. I don't like that. I also don't like the fact that he fails to write out my assignments or any pointers he gives me during our lessons. I have to do all of this. Not that I really mind doing so, but I feel like he thinks of himself as this piano oracle and I go to him for knowledge. I feel like as the student, I shouldn't have to worry about figuring the ins and outs of how the exam works. That's the teacher's job. He doesn't seem interested in helping me out on this front. And I have to say I kind of resent this. I'm so passionate about learning the piano and he's... well not as passionate about teaching.

The only thing that's keeping me with him is the fact that he is a real concert pianist and just being in his presence is an inspiration... but how great of a pianist could he be if he needs to take on students on the side to make a living? (I KNOW... very ungrateful thought, but one that lingers nonetheless). And he DOES try to explain things to me.. and he is quite patient.. so he isn't all bad.

I don't know. I guess you could say that you can't very well expect a real working professional pianist to be as involved in teaching their pupil in the way a professional piano teacher might. I constantly feel like he wasn't made to be a teacher but he has to teach out of necessity's sake.

So what do you guys think? Should I stick it out with him because ultimately I could learn so much more from him rather than some certified board piano teacher?

[keypeg]

Hi Leah.  I'm an adult student who had to take a few years off.  A couple of years into lessons I started looking at what I was doing, how, and why and also talked some things through with my teacher.  

The first thing I'd like to ask is what your goals are?  From what you have written, you want to do the exams.  Are they the goal, or are they a means to an end, or part of a larger goal?  If you know what your goals are, have you transmitted those goals to your teacher?  Do you know what his goals are for you?

You have referred to "some certified board teacher" - I'm not sure what that is. I know that some music teachers are certified by the RCM.  I haven't looked into it, but I think these teacher would be examined for understanding the instrument, technique, performance, and also how to teach.  You are comparing your teacher to these, finding them lesser.  Yet any of those certified teachers might be primarily performers, and might have any number of backgrounds including Juilliard, Curtis, or elsewhere.

Ok, so your teacher has that background, and is a performer.  He doesn't write down the pointers.  For the things that you do remember after lessons, are they things that help you grow, and suitable to your level and your goals?   If you are a true beginner and if you have never studied another instrument, are you getting the basic skills systematically.  Or are you just tackling pieces, and being given pointers as to how to make this or that better?  are you learning skills such as sight reading, technique?  Of course some of this goes back to goals.  If you start out without defined goals (like many of us do) and you simply look for the "best" (most credentialed/ inspiring) teacher this can go any which way.

Fwiw, we weren't given written down pointers either.  We went home, went through the lesson, wrote our own note and that seemed good enough.

Re: theory.  If you are a beginner, you would be studying preliminary rudiments.  I think that exam comes at about the gr. 4 level.  I've talked to a number of teachers who say they don't really have time to also teach theory.  I expressed an interest late in theory.  I studied most of it on my own and it is quite possible to do so, and questions that came up were dealt with in part of some of the lessons.  I've written all three levels of rudiments.

The thing about theory is that it often becomes a dead dry thing, divorced from music.  When you study the formal theory, try to get the reality of it too.  If studying intervals, listen to their flavour, find them in music you are playing or hear, experiment with them.  Often, too, a musician who is a teacher will teach you theory in a more real way. He may point out a cadence or an effect.  These things are more real and truly worthwhile - this is the part we don't get in books.  What the rudiment do is to give us the language that musicians need.

Re: familiarity with exams
Our teacher also came from another country.  He did have the syllabus and knew enough.  However eventually I bought my own copy of the syllabus because it did seem better to be on top of it myself.

[leah22]

Yes, the exams offer a systematic way I can go about learning all the ins and outs of playing the piano. It also makes me feel like I've come full circle, as I used to do exams as a kid before abandoning piano. And I'm not a pure beginner, I suggested jumping to grade 5 RCM and he agreed that this would be appropriate for me. I'd previously taken grade 3 piano a long, long time ago.

Oh don't get me wrong, I was not comparing my teacher with these certified RCM teachers and finding them lesser. But I don't think your average RCM certified teacher has his kind of qualifications. The reason I'm even having doubts about him is because I realize just because he went to his school it does not mean he's the best teacher for me. I wish that weren't true but...

Many times in our lessons he says he can HELP me through the exams. But I don't need HELP, I need a guide. He's not some afterschool tutor I go to for extra help. He has to be my main teacher. Oftentimes he totally forgets about things he's assigned for me to do.

I guess all I really wanted to hear was that being so educated anything that the RCM throws at me he'd be more than capable of helping me through...so it's all a matter of getting him to look through my syllabus and knowing what I will be tested with.

At the same time I just really want to quit shopping for teachers and just concentrate on playing and getting better.

[quantum]

It sounds like you have a learning style that is not congruent with your teacher's teaching.  Just because you do not like your teacher's style, doesn't mean he is a bad or ineffective teacher. 

You seem to like a structured, planned, and logical approach.  There are teachers who do that.  The style of teaching your teacher is using is often encountered at the university level.  Such advanced pianists seldom need such rigorous routines spelled out.  They already have got the ground work and go to the teacher to grow artistically.  Exploration is very much a part of music - finding out what peaks your interest.   This is probably what your teacher is trying to get you to do.  However, as a beginner it is hard to know where to start.  In a university environment, it is well expected that a student be able to do some ground digging and research outside of the lesson. 

If you wish to take exams, your teacher should be responsible in guiding you.  However, that is no excuse to let your guard down.  The student is very much responsible in reading and understanding the official examination requirements for their grade.  In the case of the RCM, the Piano Syllabus is published and widely available.  2008 is the current edition and you should be able to find it at a local music book store.  If you plan on taking RCM exams, the syllabus is the first thing you should buy - it is more important than the graded repertoire/study books.  You can take your rep out of any book, but the syllabus lays down the official guidelines. 

Believe it or not, most concert artists cannot make a living from concertizing alone.  Unless you are at the ranks of Martha Argerich and company, you will most likely need to supplement your income.  I've studied under three concert pianists, all of them have many commercial recordings to their name, all of them still need some other source of income. 

[keypeg]

I had to think about that answer.  

Yes, the exams offer a systematic way I can go about learning all the ins and outs of playing the piano.

Essentially you have defined the teaching approach.  But this ties the hands of the person responsible for teaching you, by having him use your approach to do his job of instructing you.  This teacher may know what he finds important in pianism, what should be taught first and in what order, what is suitable for you in particular (through his observation), and how he would like to do that.  This should be his area of expertise.  But that decision has been made for him to a degree.  He has to try to work around that somehow.  Of course, if your goal was to pass exams for the sake of passing exams, he could coach you for that in the same way as a musician can coach people for performances.  However, your goal seems to be learning to play the piano.

The musician teaching you will know what skills and what knowledge are needed.  Some of these things may not be reflected in what is tested in the exams.  He may have an idea of repertoire he would use, things he would emphasize, and things that would suit you where you are at this time.  If he is a decent teacher then he would want to form you as a pianist.  But at the same time he has to address the requirements of this exam, the repertoire and testable material as it is laid out.  He has to think of what the examiners are looking for which may not be what I've outlined above.  Exams are not teaching devices.  They may give you a sense of structure, but may prevent the teacher from structuring the lessons in the best way he knows how.

It might be a good idea to find out what he would want to teach you if he had a free hand, and maybe define what the goals actually are beyond those of the exam.  It might help you see things more clearly, and maybe lead to new avenues.

I did one exam.  We did generally follow the RCM syllabus (this was not piano) but went beyond it.  The exam was not at all the focus of lessons.  After the material of that grade was completed I was asked if I'd like to do the exam.  I had done quite a few pieces by then, getting wide experience.  We went "Which of these might be good to present in the exam?", picked this and that one, and then forgot about the whole exam until a few days before.  I was expected to "keep the shape" while we went on to the next grade and new things.  My teacher was free to concentrate on what he found most important and I like that a lot.

We hear of so many teachers who are caught up in exams or competitions, who drill their students in very few pieces so that they both can look good - does that approach really give the student a full experience?   If your teacher is not into the exam scene, maybe that is a good thing.

These are my thoughts, anyway.

[keypeg]

The style of teaching your teacher is using is often encountered at the university level.  Such advanced pianists seldom need such rigorous routines spelled out.  They already have got the ground work and go to the teacher to grow artistically.  Exploration is very much a part of music - finding out what peaks your interest.   This is probably what your teacher is trying to get you to do.  However, as a beginner it is hard to know where to start. 

If a student is truly a beginner, wouldn't it be necessary for that kind of groundwork to be created first, including with more structure and guidance?  The university student is basing himself on a foundation that he has already been given.  Surely a teacher has to take a student's background - what s/he can do - into account.  But maybe this teacher has confidence in Leah's ability to work at that level.

There are things about this that I'm puzzling about which I can't quite put into words.

[john90]

I'm with Keypeg on this. Really and totally focus on your ultimate goal and practise a lot. Be completely honest and open about your ultimate goal. It might be "to play Polonaise Militaire like Rubinstein" or whatever. Tell your teacher that, and if they don't like Chopin, then find someone else. You can save a lot of time and money by focussing.

I had  long break at grade 4. I thought I wanted to go through the grades, but really, deep down, all I wanted was to play a few pieces that I thought were fantastically difficult and amazing. I somehow believed that after getting grade 8 I could magically play whatever I wanted. As a (non-music) student I met someone who did their grades, but admitted they can't really 'play', and couldn't play X. When I picked up piano again in my early 20s, I started with that one piece that I desperately wanted to play all my life, but which was far too difficult, or so it seemed. Just playing fragments of it gave me a real thrill. A year or 18 months later I was basically playing it. Adding new pieces still takes ages, and massive amounts of practise.

I think the grade system can be useful for teachers and young students. But for where you are, it might not be the most efficient route. Perhaps you have enough theory for your goal, if not, then additional fortnightly theory from a theory only teacher could be a good idea. I need to learn theory, mainly because my kids keep asking me embarrassing theory questions, and because it could help with composition in future, when I get time (ha).

[keypeg]

I've been feeling uncomfortable with how rigid my post(s) probably sounded.  I should explain a bit of where I'm coming from.  I'm not taking lessons right now.  It seems that for a fair bit, my teacher was adapting to what he thought I'd accept.  We never talked about it - lessons just went on.  Teachers and students tend to wonder about each other and don't check it out.  Things weren't working for me.   When we finally did talk, how he would ideally like to teach and what I wanted to learn were quite close.  So much time had been wasted.  By that time I had an idea of what kinds of goals worked: to get physical skills (technique), learn how music works (theory - things like timing, rhythm, meter, dynamics), so that I could use these things to make good music.  Some people might start with a goal of playing pieces they like.  That's ok, because the teacher can put technique and things into his teaching of that piece - if he has the freedom to do so.  If I allow myself to think of the time that was wasted where my teacher held off teaching things that are often not accepted because they're hard and boring, simply because we didn't talk things through for so long, it would frustrate me.

[fleetfingers]

If what you want to do is progress through exams, and your teacher is not familiar with them (and is not going to become so), perhaps he is not the right teacher for you right now. From your description, it does not sound as if you two are a good fit. Your expectations of each other are not matching up. Also, it seems that you need some clear instruction on music theory and that you would respond better to a more structured approach.

If you studied with another teacher who works with beginners, would it be possible for you to return to this concert pianist when you are ready for his expertise? It sounds like he would be a great teacher for someone at a more advanced level.

[leah22]

Thanks everyone for all the input. My ultimate goal is to be able to know enough about how music works so that I could write my own music one day. I'm talking about pop music. I am never going to be a concert pianist nor do I want to be, but I just love classical piano, period. I want to be classically trained.

He's taught regular folks who are just beginning at the piano. Like working professionals who have an interest in piano but are by no means piano majors. He's had experience teaching both zeros and heroes (at the piano).

Simply being in the presence of someone who has devoted his life to piano is so extremely inspiring. I've been taught by board certified teachers and a lady who had a Ph. D in piano pedagogy and I never got the same feeling from them as I do from this teacher.

I emailed him with my issues and he wrote back to me saying that I should continue on until the end of the year and see if I've made progress.

Ultimately I think I will stick with him until I've at least achieved my first piano exam. Unless he turns out to be completely wrong for me, I want to stick with him and see where it leads. He won't be in town for very long anyway so I better take advantage of this opportunity.  I've been jumping around, switching teachers, starting and stopping with piano for so long now, and I'm really fed up with myself. 2011 is the year I start making progress towards substantial improvement.

[keypeg]

Leah, that sounds good.  Knowing what learning and teaching entails is already tricky business.  Some teachers who seem to be totally unstructured and chaotic actually have something systematic sitting underneath that they are drawing on.  Others showing the same style might simply be lost.  Some who are systematic and methodical with strong routines and clear demands are effective.  Others just love routine and control, with not much sitting underneath. 

We have to give it time, to see what will come of it in the long run.  Sometimes it gets worse before it gets better, and we only know in hindsight what it was all about.  Other times there is actually something wrong.  It's not easy to tell.  The fact that you communicated with your teacher is important.

Best of luck.