Can I teach myself piano?

[momen]

I recently bought my first electric keyboard and I'm really excited to learn how to play it. Let me say it first: I know self-teaching is not easy. I know it needs motivation, patience, and hard work.
However, I would like to know if it is even 'possible' to learn without a teacher. I will not be able to get a teacher since it is pretty difficult to find piano teachers in the country where I live
So, will it be enough to learn from Google, textbooks, youtube, and forums?  I know I won't become a professional pianist without a teacher's guidance, but I'm considering playing the piano as a hobby. I have no prior knowledge regarding basic music, but I bought the book 'Piano for Dummies' and I hope it's enough to cover the basics. But, will I be able to play decent classical music and other kind of music after several months of practicing?
I would love supportive replies  

[jono1]

I taught myself to play many moons ago when I was 13.  I bought books and borrowed from the library.  Nowadays there is so much information on Google that it should be a lot easier.  However I got to the stage when I needed lessons to progress in classical music.   I'm, now 60 years old and still taking lessons, so is my teacher who is an accomplished concert pianist, so you have all the time in the world.  Good luck and just get on with it!!

[ask_why]

It's certainly possible since the first great pianists didn't have anyone to teach them...

I wouldn't say the odds are on your side though.  You're a lot more likely to develop improper technique and end up hitting a wall or injuring yourself once you start trying difficult pieces (bad teachers can just as easily cause this).  That's one of the most common problems -- people don't realize their technique is wrong until years into the learning process, and then they're easily discouraged by the amount of corrective work needed.  Still, as long as you don't seriously injure your hands you can always fix your technique later.

[vlh1992]

I would say that it is possible to teach yourself. I have been playing for a while now and am a music major in college. I have had learned both by using teachers and by teaching myself. although it won't be easy, it is possible to teach yourself. Get as many resources as you can especially online. They can be a great help to you. Like I said, it won't be easy but it is possible. Good luck!!! 

[momen]

Thanks for your replies! I learned a lot about reading noted during this week. I'm so excited to continue and practice more 

[shadowzerg]

It is definitely possible to teach yourself. I can attest to this as I have no teacher(never have)! I've been playing for a year(and some months) but I think I have good technique because everything I can play is relatively easy to me(Good technique = easy playing right?) . As of now, my repertory consists of 12 pieces of progressive difficulty all above level 3 in the ABSRM grading system.


Some of the pieces I've accomplished(That I feel most of the forum would know)(In no particular order):
1.Arabesque 1 - Debussy
2.Valse Op.64 No.2 - Chopin
3.Valse Op.69 No.1 - Chopin

That's all of the classics that I know(I'm learning 4 more as of now). All of the other pieces in my repertory are modern.

Some examples(So you can look them up, they may interest you) :
1.Besaid Island from FFXPC(Final Fantasy Piano Collections) - Nobuo Uematsu
2. Twilight Shore - Joe Hisaishi
3. A Sign of Hope(My first piece) - Nobuo Uematsu
4. Circle of Eternity - Yasunori Mitsuda

That's just to name a few. Here's a few words of advice. First the obvious...Never give up! Second, You'll need a LOT of motivation(listening to a lot of music you like can accomplish this). Third, get as much information as you can(Forums, Google, Youtube, talking to other musicians whenever possible)! Also, it would be very helpful to be able to read sheet music(I assume you already can). Self teaching is definitely a possible goal so go for it!   
 

[keyboardclass]

It's certainly possible since the first great pianists didn't have anyone to teach them...

I wouldn't say the odds are on your side though.  You're a lot more likely to develop improper technique and end up hitting a wall or injuring yourself once you start trying difficult pieces (bad teachers can just as easily cause this).  That's one of the most common problems -- people don't realize their technique is wrong until years into the learning process, and then they're easily discouraged by the amount of corrective work needed.  Still, as long as you don't seriously injure your hands you can always fix your technique later.

This is good advice apart from the first and last sentence - No great keyboard player taught him/herself - it'll take years (and lots of lessons) to get rid of poor habits.

[carbe]

I haven't read the other part of the thread.
But of course you can learn yourself playing piano!
There is always good to have someone to ask, a teacher or someone else, but it's extremely creative and good to learn playing yourself. I started playing myself, and I think that's why it's my greatest interest at now. Because I played what I wanted to play and I loved it.
After I while I understood that the best thing wat to combinate self-practising with practising with a teacher. I think this is the best way to keep the interest and to make sure that everything is okay with the technique and everything else.

A good teacher is of course a good way to improve the playing, but you can also do it by yourself if you really have the interest.
But I think a combination is the best thing!

[shadowzerg]

This is good advice apart from the first and last sentence - No great keyboard player taught him/herself - it'll take years (and lots of lessons) to get rid of poor habits.

Chopin would like a word with you good sir! 

[keyboardclass]

His mum taught him!  Followed by Zvwny (forgot how to spell it).

[pianist1976]

Chopin would like a word with you good sir!  

The autodidact stuff about Chopin is an absurd myth (or, at least, a big exaggeration). But even if it were true, we must have in account that Chopin was a genius who helped a lot in the history of the evolution of piano technique (and music forms, harmony, etc.). Unless you are one of the chosen called to be part of the revolution of technique and music, it's likely to happen that you'll learn only bad habits. Another big problem is that self-taught system is prone to create false hearing or delusions, both technical and auditive. As in self-taught systems the teacher is usually more ignorant than the pupil, it's not unusual to find people who thinks that plays very well and technically well while the reality is a sloppy, uneven and plain bad playing due to the lack of corrections, know how and a clear objective (lack of knowing what must/can be reached).

Talking about the autodidact myth of Chopin, as keyboardclass said, Chopin had some teachers like Zywny and, later, Jozef Elsner. They were probably not piano virtuosi but I guess something taught him. And, apart of these, Chopin was in contact with many of the virtuosi of his youth like Field,Hummel, Moschelles or Kalkbrenner, who influenced in his playing. Of course, he discovered many new things that contradicted and expanded the former way of playing but in order to break the rules, one must know them before. He wasn't satisfied with that starting point and evolved from this, surpassing the initial aims of Clementi's school but the myth of Chopin autodidact is just plain false. Even geniuses need a starting point.

[keyboardclass]

Another good post pianist!  I've been working on the Mazurkas - I'm getting the idea Chops got a lot of his playing style from country musicians.  What do you think?  There's a certain confident relaxed attitude that comes with the peasant performer territory.

[pianist1976]

Another good post pianist!

Thanks! 

I'm getting the idea Chops got a lot of his playing style from country musicians

Chopin once said bitterly to a friend, regarding I think to mazurkas Op 41, "I'm living so many years in Paris that I don't even remember how it's sung in my country". To me, this is revelatory of the influence of folk music on him. We have also many modal passages in the mazurkas which is another sign of the use of folklore elements (as Bartók and de Falla, for example, demonstrated years later in their deep folklore research). I think you are right 

[keyboardclass]

Here's one of my favourite laid-back country musicians' performances:

[xander1984]

I personally think that taking lesson and paying for it is overrated. (I play jazz mostly so I'm not talking about classical here). Better alternative would to find some player(s) who is(are) better than you and spend time with that person discussing technique, music or whatever. To be honest, it's not easy to find people like that. But look luck to you.

[keyboardclass]

I did that for quite a number of years then took lessons - a few years after that I realize the guy I hung around with didn't (and doesn't) know what he's talking about.

[jimbo320]

Hey momen,
Learning to play on your own is very possible. Harder but doable. I'm speaking from experience here. After an accident 3 yrs. ago I lost the use of my left hand. I taught myself bass, six and twelve string guitars by ear when I was younger and even played in bands. Not wanting to give up music I started the piano. One handed is better than none, lol. At least I can read now, lol.
Teaching myself at 59, I started at 57, is difficult but possible. Lots of material on the web. My first book was 'Piano For Dummies' too.
Just learn technique and theory correctly. Here's a couple websites that might help....https://www.musictheory.net/........ https://www.gopiano.com/piano_lessons/notes1.htm

Good luck, Jimbo

[minimalist]

If you are a beginner, without a music background, I think you would be crazy not to take some lessons, at least initially. Lets face it, by asking questions from others on this forum you are getting advice from whomever, which are lessons by proxy. Even if its one lesson every month for a few months, just to get you on the right track, you 'd save so much time and frustration that you might otherwise experience.
T

[momen]

Thanks for your encouraging replies! I'm still practicing Twinkle Twinkle, haha. But I'm really enjoying it. I'm finding it a bit difficult, however, to manage read the notes and figure the keys' positions. I guess I'll improve by time.

[confuter]

It's certainly possible since the first great pianists didn't have anyone to teach them...

I wouldn't say the odds are on your side though.  You're a lot more likely to develop improper technique and end up hitting a wall or injuring yourself once you start trying difficult pieces (bad teachers can just as easily cause this).  That's one of the most common problems -- people don't realize their technique is wrong until years into the learning process, and then they're easily discouraged by the amount of corrective work needed.  Still, as long as you don't seriously injure your hands you can always fix your technique later.

This sounds frightening. I'm currently teaching myself, I've had lessons for four maybe five years? It's too expensive at the moment though, so I'm continuing on my own. This allowed me to start on some serious heavy pieces that my teacher would've never let me played. I'm working on the fourth ballade of Chopin now for example, my last teacher would definitely declare me crazy for that!
But are you saying that I could injure my hands by teaching pieces like that to myself? Because that is obviously something I want to prevent! What do you mean by injure anyway? Do you mean 'injure' with the wrong techniques or the 'medical injure'? And what do you mean by seriously injure? Is there a state of never going back?

[keyboardclass]

Injury as in forever, like Paderewski, having a pain in a finger - seriously disabling.  That's one side of it, but as long as you steer clear of pain you'll be OK.  The other side is bad tehnique habits - eventually you'll have to go back to square one to fix them up.  This could take years whereas with advice you could be fixing them now.  Bear in mind most teachers are rubbish.  The question you should be asking is where do I find a good teacher.

[pollydendy]

don't give up!  My mother taught herself to play guitar, french horn, tuba and harmonica.  Grandma taught herself to play  the Organ.  My brother is a self-taught drummer.  I had a student who was self-taught from an internal program on her keyboard and she learned beautifully.. You can do it. Be aware of  your technique.  watch  other pianists  play, especially the good ones on the internet,  and analyze their performance to  make sure you are not starting any bad habits  and to  correct any that you may  have.  Keep those wrists level and don't let your fingers buckle.  support your hand with good overall posture, and sit properly with a good chair or bench.   

[keyboardclass]

You can do it. Be aware of  your technique.  watch  other pianists  play, especially the good ones on the internet,  and analyze their performance to  make sure you are not starting any bad habits

And how do you know what bad habits to look for?  How will you know a 'good one' when you see it?

[jimbo320]

Hi Keyboard,
I'm not quit sure what injuries people are talking about. I'm teaching myself and I feel fine.
My playing might not look as correct as it should, but it still sounds okay. I know on fast pieces there could be a tripping up on the fingers, but planning it out first is how to avoid that. As far as I can tell the "bad" habits everyone is talking about can be overcome by simply taking the time to think it out. A good example of a self taught pianist would be Yanni. I'm sure there's more but he comes to mind.
The important thing is to keep on keeping on...

Musically, Jimbo

[stevebob]

Potential injuries that come to mind are those associated with unnecessary tension and repetitive stress (e.g., tendinitis, carpal tunnel syndrome and focal dystonia).

The answer to whether one can teach oneself successfully surely depends on one’s experience and goals (among other factors).  Someone who had lessons for years in the past is in a very different situation to someone who has never sat down in front of a piano before; an idiosyncratic, homespun technique might be fine for pop tunes and possibly even jazz yet insufficient for classical beyond the simplest pieces.

[mussels_with_nutella]

Everyone can teach themselves whatever they want in the human knowledge, because of its nature. Then, you can teach yourself piano. I have never been taught piano and here I am, with the soon aim of playing the Rachmaninoff's piano concerto no2. And this is not because I am superb or something like that: it is just matter of being determined and doing it well. And to do it well you must analyse all of your movements and all of the sounds that piano emits, until you feel a symbiosis with your instrument. Then, you will be perfectly able to be a master of improvisation and of classical player (and also of whatever style you want to play!) That is my advice: Try, try, try, gain technique, speed, harmony and, specially, experience with your new girlfriend: the piano.

[stevebob]

Maybe I can find symbiosis with a scalpel and teach myself brain surgery.   

[mussels_with_nutella]

Maybe I can find symbiosis with a scalpel and teach myself brain surgery.   

stevebob, why did you reply in that way?   

[stevebob]

stevebob, why did you reply in that way?   

I wished to demonstrate that the claim that "[e]veryone can teach themselves whatever they want in the human knowledge, because of its nature" is obviously untrue, as is the suggestion that determination alone can make anyone "perfectly able to be a master" of anything.  We're all subject to the laws of reality, and things just don't work that way.

Your mention of Rach 2 and your aim to play it "soon" is misleading, too.  If Debussy's first Arabesque is your current level (as you mentioned you're learning it in another post), then that concerto isn't something you should expect to play soon (as most people would understand the word soon).  In fact, I doubt that anyone who is entirely self-taught has ever played it to a reasonable standard; the sort of prodigious talent that would be required to do so is infinitesimally rare.

[keyboardclass]

Steve's right mussels - intuition is not going to help you play the piano.  Do you know muscles only contract?  Starter for 10 - how then are you going to manage to 'push' a key down?

[mcdiddy1]

You can teach yourself the piano! However, up to a certain point.
You can teach yourself the basics and reach a fairly high level but you would be better served having a teacher for techniques and short-cuts to reach your goal. It also helps to have a musical back ground.

[anafressari]

don't take seriously if somebody tells you that there is a limit. you can arrive at the point you want.



https://www.youtube.com/user/rolipoli?feature=mhw4

[stevebob]

don't take seriously if somebody tells you that there is a limit. you can arrive at the point you want.

You just make a wish and it magically happens, just like everything in life?  Not bloody likely!

[keyboardclass]

https://www.youtube.com/user/rolipoli?feature=mhw4

Hey, where's the tune?

[pianist1976]

Can I teach myself piano?

Yes, you can. Is it recommendable? I don't think so.

[jimbo320]

Yes, it's possible. Yanni is a good example that comes to mind....

[brogers70]

A good teacher helps. A bad teacher at least gives you a psychological motivation to practice (so you aren't throwing your money away).

A good teacher can (1) show you efficient movements (2) help you notice how you sound, so you can begin to critique yourself better (3) teach you how to organize your practice time effectively and (4) pick pieces to work on that are a challenge, but not so hard as to be a frustrating waste of time.

The problem is that telling a good teacher from a bad one takes time. You have to trust them. You have to do what they say even when it seems wrong - if you could get away with just doing what seems intuitively right you wouldn't need a teacher in the first place. But sometimes what they say seems wrong because it really is wrong. It takes patience and common sense to figure out.

[tunneller]

I mostly self-taught, biggest shock to me was the stuff I didn't know. Indeed, had absolutely no clue that I should be even thinking about it. On the one or two pieces I was practicing, I did end up going to a class after a while and *wow* the things I was getting wrong.. well...... a took it in a positive way.

What I found easy was to learn how to read the notes, memorize, do hands-separate, sight-read, etc.

But I had no idea about how 3/4 should sound versus 4/4.  I knew I wasn't quite sounding right, but didn't realize what was wrong. And I find consistent pp/p/f/ff, etc extremely tricky - I suspect I am doing completely wrong finger (arm?) (shoulder??) movements that a teacher would spot immediately.

I don't have the routine office hours (and maybe not the money) for regular lessons, so still get stumped a lot: without a teacher, you try finding out the difference of how 2/2 should sound vs 2/4 or 4/4. I know I still can't.

And then the other point: as you get better you will have a high chance to injure yourself. In my case nasty tennis elbow from doing 4-5 trills without relaxing my wrist. Took six months away from piano to recover. Pain is not gain, apparently, whereas I just tried to "push through" oops - who knew ?!!

So I don't think you need more classes than you have time to practice, but certainly you should be planning on more than zero classes. Must be a happy medium somewhere in between.

Good luck, and keep us posted as to your progress, T.

[momen]

Thanks a lot!  I'm still practicing simple pieces. I am worried, however, that because I am practicing and repeating the piece over and over, I am memorizing the piece without needing to look onto the sheet. Is that a good thing? I mean, is being able to play a piece correctly without looking on the sheet a good? Or is sight-reading better?

[mcdiddy1]

Thanks a lot!  I'm still practicing simple pieces. I am worried, however, that because I am practicing and repeating the piece over and over, I am memorizing the piece without needing to look onto the sheet. Is that a good thing? I mean, is being able to play a piece correctly without looking on the sheet a good? Or is sight-reading better?

It sounds like youare doing great. Really invest in getting a teacher because you will improve much more rapidly having help. You can learn a great deal on you own but there are always going to be major gaps in your playing because no one can expect to figure out many aspects of piano technique, practice,musical style traits, phrasing, tone and other aspects.

It would be wise to practice as many aspects as you can and divide up your time to work on pieces you work on, sight reading, and learning new pieces. Every thing you do in practice should start with your goal and your goals is going to be different from everyone eles. If your goal is to learn these pieces then you you are probably being successful at meeting your goal.

[tunneller]

You should definitely be planning on memorizing and not looking at the sheet. Every piece. Also, work out what fingering you like and stick to always doing that as well (don't sometimes use 3rd finger, sometimes pinky, etc), memorize each finger position for each note. Once you have memorized the piece you can concentrate on things like when you have to slur one note into the next by "almost" playing the two notes at the same time, or the opposite: playing one note without such a slurring. These are called "Legato" and "Staccato" respectively.

When the crowd here say sight reading, they are meaning something entirely different to what you might expect, namely put a sheet of music in front of you, that you've never seen before, and immediately play it at full speed. Yes, that does sound insane, but they do it 

<yes, it this last point is sort of a "trick", to sight read they (we) memorize patterns and work out ways to anticipate which patterns are probably coming next so they can quickly get fingers into the right place. It is amazing to watch the first time you see it -- something a teacher could show you, for example! >

In between memorizing pieces, you should work out how to play scales and arpeggios, really smooth. Learn how to play them legato, or staccato, quiet, loud, etc. It is not as easy as it might sound.

As a start to this practice, find in this forum every post by someone called Bernhard. Do whatever he says.

[momen]

Wow! Thanks for the information. I absolutely appreciate it  I will definitely read the posts by Bernhard. And, regarding getting teacher, the problem is not with money, it is with finding him/her. I mean, it is nearly impossible to find a piano teacher where I live  That's why I'm willing to learn alone.

[ingunite]

Well... Anyone can become the president, as the saying goes, but what are the odds?
I do not want to discourage anyone's honest efforts and knock hard-won personal achievements, but learning piano by oneself seems an extremely time-consuming process. I can imagine much time wasted trying to figure fairly simple things that a teacher would clarify or rectify immediately.
I personally can't imagine working independently on serious repertoire. Exercises and medium difficulty pieces would not be so bad, though.
I have often heard a cliche about the beginning of piano learning being easy, then becoming more and more difficult, as opposed to learning other instruments, where the beginning is more difficult, and then it becomes easier...
Much would depend on whether there is there a particular audience you envision playing to.
If you are learning for entirely your own pleasure, and have enough time for it, go ahead, and keep at it! Listen to high quality recordings of pieces you want to learn as much as you can, and analyze them over, and over again. You'll learn a lot from them.
A disclaimer: Always had a teacher myself, and never knew a respectable autodidact.

[mussels_with_nutella]

Momen, as I see you really need to learn to play alone and your willing is OK, and that's the clue to achieve it, I am going to give you some tips -- just the way I learnt piano. I have never taken a piano class, anybody has taught me harmony and I can't read sheet music fast, but I am about to play the entire chopin revolutionary étude and I improvise really well, so putting my self-teaching as an example, I encourage you to achieve the same and more!!

Firstly, play tunes with the right hand. Play whatever you want trying to play it in the most confortable position with the hands and fingers and try new forms to play the same. When you think you are fast with your fingers, start playing with both hands at the same time (this is the most difficult step). I started learning this piece from this tutorial, because I loved it, and i wanted

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After learning to play with both hands, you must try new combinations, think about the music itself finding out in your way why what you play sounds like that with that feeling, trying pieces more and more difficult.

And remember that since the very moment you learned how to play with both hands you are able to play even the most difficult opus of the most barroque composer, remember it! You are able to achieve it, just try, try, try... and get helped with pianostreet!

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes you can teach yourself piano however more often than not you will merely be reinventing the wheel (and sometimes your wheel is not very good compared to the norm so you have to be willing to sacrifice your wheels for a better one!). A good teacher (if you can find one) can give you the solutions fast and make you progress faster, when on your own you need to do everything yourself, you also have to motivate yourself since no one is there to push you or direct you. There is also a whole lot of BAD piano knowledge to be found on the internet and elsewhere, you simply cannot know if it is good or not if you have no piano experience, but learning pieces can never be bad for you so long it is extending you and doesn't push you through the same routines over and over again.

In the end you must teach yourself, you simply cannot have a teacher for your whole life, if you do then your teacher is fooling you and not helping you to learn to fish for yourself. Personally I have always had an autodidactic approach to music, it has naturally come to me (and it was probably guided from listening/watching the great masters of the piano play when I was younger and not realizing that I was absorbing the craft), I have always found great interest in the physical feeling from playing the piano and knew what changes made me more relaxed. If you find yourself sitting at the piano for countless hours puzzling over your problems and being very excited as you solve them, then you can learn piano on your own. If however you spend countless hours puzzling over your problems and get deeper and deeper into the dark woods of the unknown, then you need a teacher.