Composers whose piano works SOUND hard but aren't

[wintervind]

Could you give me examples of repertoire that sounds more difficult than it is?

[donjuan]

Usually, it will be the opposite case

I found Liszt easy to learn, - I was quite surprised to find it playable, after listening to recordings that sound so bloody difficult..
But, the only reason why Liszt was so easy to learn is just because he was such an amazing pianist who could make the music comfortable for hands.  Many people play Liszt, but few people are ble to play Liszt well.

If you are looking for the opposite situation, Mozart is very difficult to play AT ALL, let alone well.  I think small children play Mozart better than experienced pianists because they really dont realize how difficult the music is.

[larse]

Liszt is too reflected, I think. He has alot of musical stuff which makes him even harder than he sounds, often. Although, some of his music are easy to learn.

Mendelsohns Gm Concerto is just about the easiest concerto there is. Allmost everything Mendelsohn wrote for the piano are quite simple to learn and play, because he writes very idiomatic, just as Liszt could do. But he's quite straightforward musically, compared to Liszt.

Else is there some chopin pieces...depends on how easy you want them to be..

The exact oposite would I say is Bach. He sopunds real clear and easy, however because of his baroque style, and advanced contrapunctual technique, he's a real devil to study.

[IgnazPaderewski]

HOROWITZ CARMEN VARIATIONS!!!!!!

very difficult sounding, beautifuly written

also, Liszt ballade no.2 is very straightforward, yet sounds virtuosic.

The liszt e flat concerto is much easier than it sounds, and the b minor sonata is certainly simpler than its reputation

[Goldberg]

Overall I think Liszt is easy to play compared to his reputation, and most definitely, how his music sounds. For me, personally, I have not had much difficulty playing Liszt well because, as someone else pointed out, he was a great pianist himself! He wrote it to make sense...so it's easier I think for pianists to play it now. However, I don't think the musical nature should really be brought into this discussion. Everyone is always going on and on about interpreting a piece correctly, but I think worrying about it only makes the problem worse. Now, I'm no wonderful pianist but I haven't been playing for very long either...I know that there are some parts in music that really must be well thought-out, yes, but most of it I think is just playing it with excitement, particularly in Liszt, and that shouldn't be difficult to achieve.
Anyway, I think if we start going on about "well, sure, but how easy is it to play it WELL?!" and so forth, the truth is, we're not going to have a very productive discussion in this topic. Where someone has an easy time playing Chopin musically, or at least to a fair degree (as most of us do..and should...), they might have problems making Bach sound good. So, I think we should just look at it on a technical scale: what things sound technically harder than they are? This is where I think a lot of Liszt's music qualifies. For instance, I just finished listening to Totentanz...Overall, from what I've played from this piece, I'd say it's quite a bit easier than what a beginner might think from listening to it. Same, perhaps, with La Campanella (though, in this piece, I agree that the tempo dictates the difficulty. Try playing it at Cziffra's speed for a challenge!).

[donjuan]

.....and the b minor sonata is certainly simpler than its reputation

excuse me?!  That piece will eat me alive!!

[Goldberg]

That is a very amusing picture...

[Rach3]

[nanabush]

Sorry for diggin up an old thread, but I had to add in Debussy's prelude from pour le piano... I learnt the whole thing in less than half an hour, and I thought it would be wayyyy worse... I got a recording of arrau playing debussy and ravel, and I wanted to play the prelude for fun.... I could sight read nearly all of it... It sounds impressive, like a toccata, but it's sooo much easier than it sounds!

[mike_lang]

Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

[dnephi]

Mazeppa sounds easy but it's fiendish.  People tell me Revolutionary Etude sounds harder. 

I like March Wind by macdowell.  It looks nearly as hard as some really really hard stuff but it's fairly easy.

[thierry13]

Mazeppa sounds easy

Not when you watch Berezovsky's video

[nanabush]

Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

lol..

[dnephi]

Not when you watch Berezovsky's video

How does he make it look/sound so hard?  Man! 

[thierry13]

How does he make it look/sound so hard?  Man! 

Well, he play it at high speed and play it very well and cleanly. I think that explains all of it

[donjuan]

Well, he play it at high speed and play it very well and cleanly. I think that explains all of it

I think you mean to say 'he makes it look easy'

[lau]

i don't like it when someone makes the peice look and sound easier than it is. It doesn't show how hard you worked and how difficult the song is. Sometimes i prefer a messy performance. I didin't beverksy's video

[jre58591]

I didin't beverksy's video

huh?

[donjuan]

i don't like it when someone makes the peice look and sound easier than it is. It doesn't show how hard you worked and how difficult the song is. Sometimes i prefer a messy performance. I didin't beverksy's video

you must hate Marc Andre Hamelin's playing then.  I agree with you for the most part, but I dont think showing everyone how hard you worked necessarily makes the performance any better.

[pita bread]

i don't like it when someone makes the peice look and sound easier than it is. It doesn't show how hard you worked and how difficult the song is. Sometimes i prefer a messy performance. I didin't beverksy's video

Or perhaps you're envious that some people don't have to struggle?

[Waldszenen]

Liszt.

[lau]

Or perhaps you're envious that some people don't have to struggle?

i don't care if they struggled or not, thats just what i think.

But they should at least struggle some, it's not like they didn't have to practice any

[donjuan]

But they should at least struggle some, it's not like they didn't have to practice any

I'm not sure if I am understanding your statement right..
are you saying that they should act like they are struggling, in order to show everyone how hard the piece is to play?  I know that sometimes, say, in Liszt's B minor sonata, this adds a kind of excitement to the music because it's on the edge of falling off a cliff and the audience doesnt know what to expect next.  Uncontrolled accelerandos, rhythmic inaccuracies, bangy wrong notes; I think these little imperfections add a special flavor, if appropriate. 

That's why we all love Horowitz's Rachmaninoff Sonata No. 2 so much, after all.  Of course, Horowitz has a way of drawing our focus to what's important, and glazing over the rest.  But that's a whole other conversation.

However, in say, Mozart, Schubert, and many other classical composers, I think most people would argue the opposite: that pianists practice in order to perfect their performance and avoid the possibility of screwing up in front of an audience. -to avoid hearing some old lady in the audience mutter 'well, I never!'

I know, it's a contradiction, but it's all a fine balance and personal taste plays a major role.

[Pumkinhead]

Oh man. For me, anything by Grieg is a lot easier than it sounds for me. This is probably why "Wedding Day", "To Spring" and the Concerto are so popular among Students and teachers.

[lau]

I mean't that it's not like those pianist don't have to practice at all and it will just come to them, they have to practice

practice=struggle    maybe I should just forget it

[donjuan]

practice=struggle    maybe I should just forget it

but you practice, so that you don't have to struggle!

  yeah, just forget it... now I'm getting confused.

[lau]

I can't  forget it now, it's getting too interesting.  If that statement you just said is true, then if you didn't practice you would be struggling during a performance. I wouldn't call that a struggle i would call it a failure.

When you practice what do you feel? Glee?, joy?,  eternal happiness? No, practice is a struggle, that's why you quit, because the struggle of practicing.

that's why you "struggle" to keep up your grades in school. You need to practice(study, do homework)

[pita bread]

I can't  forget it now, it's getting too interesting.  If that statement you just said is true, then if you didn't practice you would be struggling during a performance. I wouldn't call that a struggle i would call it a failure.

When you practice what do you feel? Glee?, joy?,  eternal happiness? No, practice is a struggle, that's why you quit, because the struggle of practicing.

that's why you "struggle" to keep up your grades in school. You need to practice(study, do homework)

You must also despise people who breeze through school.

[donjuan]

I can't  forget it now, it's getting too interesting.  If that statement you just said is true, then if you didn't practice you would be struggling during a performance. I wouldn't call that a struggle i would call it a failure.

When you practice what do you feel? Glee?, joy?,  eternal happiness? No, practice is a struggle, that's why you quit, because the struggle of practicing.

that's why you "struggle" to keep up your grades in school. You need to practice(study, do homework)

so, on the concert platform, how does one show the epic struggle that went on day after day at home at the piano?  I think your idea was here:

i don't like it when someone makes the peice look and sound easier than it is. It doesn't show how hard you worked and how difficult the song is. Sometimes i prefer a messy performance. I didin't beverksy's video

what do you mean "messy?"  I want to know what the word means to you. 
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And if you really sweated it out at home -really 'stuggled'- to learn a piece, and succeeded, then you would be able to play the piece easily right?   In other words, you did your homework, right?

So then, you come to the concert stage and, to show how hard you worked, you then avoid making 'the piece look and sound easier than it is' by ____________________.

---------------
please fill in the blank.  I really dont know what you would put there. I want to know how you would show your 'struggle' - all your hard work at home- in a performance in front of an audience.

[lau]

the words that would fill in your blank would be "playing a messy performance"

that should also give you the definition of what a thought a messy performance is: slopply played due to the EXTREME difficulty of the peice.

If your still up for a debate, BRING IT ON!

[donjuan]

that should also give you the definition of what a thought a messy performance is: slopply played due to the EXTREME difficulty of the peice.

So, in order for me to play a 'good performance' for you, I would have to show you how lousy a pianist I am, and how I have bitten off more than I could chew.  I would have to show you how I toiled at home to succeed, and still came out of it with nothing.

man, now that sounds like a failure to me.

[lau]

Yes donjuan, you have the right concept...except overexaggarated. I like a performance SLIGHTLY messy. This is why I prefer Jemboys performance over Berekvsky's (however you spell it) of Mazeppa.  But I must admitt that Jemboy is missing a dynamic range.

[donjuan]

you're making a little more sense, but you'd better rethink that schooling analogy you made earlier:

that's why you "struggle" to keep up your grades in school. You need to practice(study, do homework)

and in light of your last elaboration:

Yes donjuan, you have the right concept...except overexaggarated. I like a performance SLIGHTLY messy.

you must think:
exam results are best if they SLIGHTLY suck.  Much better than getting straight A's. 

It sounds like, in response to some shitty results in school, you console yourself by coming down with a bad case of sour grapes.  I am starting to agree with Pita Bread's posts.

and I think Berezovsky's Mazeppa is plenty messy enough, because he has a harsh touch most of the time.  Jemboy just bashes though it all, hoping the feedback in the recordings will cover up the terrible noise he's making.  Of course, there is the opposite angle on this argument that I take often: Mazeppa (and lots of other Liszt) requires noise -the strepitoso tone- to be appropriate.  It does need to be a little bad boy to work.  Liszt made the ladies faint, after all. 

However, I know this noise should have nothing to do with one's inability to play.  Liszt was the greatest pianist in the world.  It was said he could play anything.  He was like a rock star.  He certainly wasnt some 2 year old banging pots and pans.

[lau]

I prefer if my exam results slightly suck. Then my parents won't expect as much from me, i won't have to work as hard, that analogy i made was perfect..don't deny.

by the way, this will be my last post in this debate, I don't want to be like the special olympics:

"Arguing over the internet is like being in the special olympics, Even though you've won, your still retarded"

[donjuan]

If your still up for a debate, BRING IT ON!

by the way, this will be my last post in this debate, I don't want to be like the special olympics:

"Arguing over the internet is like being in the special olympics, Even though you've won, your still retarded"

sound's like youre pissed off that I won.  more sour grapes
 

[nicco]

"Arguing over the internet is like being in the special olympics, Even though you've won, your still retarded"

hey thats my quote

[dnephi]

hey thats my quote

There was a blind swimmer who was 0.02 seconds short of the real olympics.  Don't insult those paralympians.

[Kassaa]

There was a blind swimmer who was 0.02 seconds short of the real olympics.  Don't insult those paralympians.

That does not make the statement wrong!