High Wrists

[Antnee]

My teacher has often corrected me, or rather told me, that my wrists are a bit too high when I play. Is this a really bad habit, does it not look right, or what? I don't like my wrists too low. My teacher says it means I'm tense, but I'm not. Any comments or suggestions??  

-Tony-

[donjuan]

yeah, my teacher told me the same thing when I played Liszt's Schubert transcription- Soirees de Vienne No.6.  I couldnt bring out the octaves too well- they sounded rushed and unclear.  as it turned out, all I needed to do was drop my wrist on the heavy beat, and the other octaves followed nicely and effortlessly.  

However, there are certainly other techniques that make use of the high wrist, like Gyorgy Cziffra when he plays the Grand Galop Chromatique- for the super fast repeated octaves, he has his hands almost at 90 degree angles to his arms, and uses vibrational energy to get huge repetition.  It looks very bizarre, but that is why I love his playing so much!
donjuan  

[janice]

I was told (can't remember who told me) that your wrists should be like this:  stand up and let your arms fall naturally to your sides.  Your fingers should be naturally curved.  This is how you should play.  

Hope this helps.

[Piazzo22]

My teacher says that I have to play with my wrists below the level of my knuckles.
And the problem in playing with high wrists is that it means you´re not using the muscles in your hand, you just use the muscles in your forearm and throw away the fingers without control.
She says I have to use the hand palm muscles too.

[maxy]

... good luck playing "hardcore" Prokofiev pieces with low wrists...

Modern technique requires the use of the arms.  Wrists too high or too low may prevent the implication of the arms.

[Antnee]

I think maybe my anatomy is just a bit diferent or something... if I try to put my wrist any lower than normal my fingers seem to have no room. I have prettly large hands. I can play a twelfth. i guess it just makes me look tense...

-Tony-

[donjuan]

I can play a twelfth.
-Tony-

:o12!
suddenly, I dont feel so much like a man...

[Antnee]

:o12!
suddenly, I dont feel so much like a man...

I know...Freakish isn't it??

-Tony-

[Rach3]

I think high wrist position is inherently uncomfortable and tense. It's not so much a formula - wrist below knuckles, I find I deviate from that somewhat, for instance playing black keys into the piano - its more of a feel-comfortable thing.

PS. I can reach an 11th.  

[xvimbi]

I think high wrists or low wrists are all ok, as long as they are not at extreme angles for long periods of time. We are all trying to achieve certain sounds, and solutions to this end are varied and often personal. Certain passages are better handled with one orientation of the wrist rather than another. It's only dangerous if someone ALWAYS plays with low wrists or ALWAYS plays with high wrists.

[nick]

I second Xvimbi's comment.
Nick

[in_love_with_liszt]

Wow....these people able to reach more than a 10th...is it really practical though? The people that can, do you really have to reach and try or could you play a quick sequence of 12ths or 11ths comfortably?

[Antnee]

Well I can barely play the twelve cleanly but I can play elevenths up and down a scale fairly easily. It hurts after a while though...

-Tony-

[robert_henry]

Xvimbi and Janice are both right on.  The mental image I like to use is a tennis match.  After the serve, each player will hover around the center of the court.  Let's call this the "neutral position".  Sometimes the player has to go left or right to hit the ball, but between shots they always move back to the center, or the "neutral position".

How does tennis apply to technique?

Between all notes, chords, scales, etc. our hand should return to the "neutral position", which to me is how our arm, wrists, and hands naturally drop when we let them hang by our sides.  Try that - let your arms hang like thick, wet ropes by your sides.  Notice how there are no muscles being used.  Now simply put your hands and the keys and play.  While playing your piece, your entire arm should return to that neutral state as often and as quickly as possible.

Your wrist, specifically, should have a neutral "home base" type of position that is comfortable for you as an individual.  This position will be different for everyone.  

The tennis analogy means that there are times to move your wrist up or down, in or out, or left to right, but consider those times to 'special' move to make a special effect.  There are times to modify the functions of your hands, palms, wrists, elbows, shoulders, or any combination of these, but those times are few.  You know what your most neutral, natural state, and try to recreate that experience every time you play, soft of a default position.  This way you have a technique that is not specific to this piece or that piece, but a reliable technique that you can call upon at any time.  




I encourage everyone to consider the following, because I strongly believe in these ideals, and no matter how obvious they might be once you read them, they are absolutely necessary and in my opinion should be thought about every day, every time you sit down, no matter what your level:

1.  You should be able to point to any part of your body and say aloud or tell someone how that particular part exists when in its default state, your neutral state.  

2.  You should also be able to say aloud and demonstrate all the different special effects you might make given the piece, composer, time period, or technical demands of any passage in the literature.  

3.  And finally, you should be able to verbally explain how that part affects/assists or is itself affected by other parts of your body, for instance how your wrists assist your hands, or how your legs send energy up to your torso.

Your mental picture of the above three items will be individual to you, and will depend on your training, the shape of your body, your idea of sound, the pianists you are in contact with, the posts on this forum, the concerts you attend; essentially your conception will be the sum of your pianistic knowledge and experiences.  Being able to do explain these three things to anyone at any given moment will make your playing more consistent in its quality.  Of course, this knowledge is crucial to teaching others, but you should be teaching yourself at all times as well.





One more thing: the language used by the initial poster sounds a little compulsory - my teacher says I "have" to do this, or I "have" to do that.  Nobody "has" to do anything.  No single person has all the answers.  Your job as a student is to learn and get input from as many sources as possible, and then come up with your own system.  It reminds me of Bruce Lee.  He didn't practice one particular kind of martial art, like Judo, or a particular form in Kung fu; he learned from EVERY system of fighting, taking what was useful, discarding the rest, and ultimately developed his OWN philosophy and system of martial arts.  He wrote a book called "Tao of Jeet Kun Do", and I encourage everyone to by it.  It is loose compilation of what he learned from his experiences, a list of principles, and it specifically inspired me to do the same with my craft.  It is amazing how many of his martial principles apply to the mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical facets of piano playing.  I too have written down my pianistic principles  and I carry this list with me everywhere I go; many times I place it on the piano when I practice and will read it as I play.  If I have a problem to which the solution is not immediately obvious to me, I will look at my list of beliefs and can always find the answer.  So, don't blindly accept what your teacher is telling you; the fact that you are on this forum in essence questioning the validity of his/her teaching says to me that you are heading in the right direction.  

Robert Henry

[xvimbi]

What Robert Henry just explained is called "body mapping". It means one should always be aware of the exact position and orientation of every body part and where it will end up when things move around.

Easier said then done! Here are some exercises:
Close your eyes, make a swooping motion with your arm and try to touch your nose with the tip of your index finger.
Try to put the tips of your index fingers together.
Try to touch your left knee cap, your pinky toe, whatever.

In order to do all this, one must have an accurate body map in one's mind, i.e. understand exactly the range of motions around every joint and where in space any motions would put the body parts.

Good pianists have a perfect body map, at least what concern their piano playing apparatus. Blind pianists rely on it.

There are several advantages to mastering this art:
You can play without looking at the keyboard.
You can concentrate on the sound you want without thinking what and how to move.
You will learn faster, because you won't have to ingrain every passage in your "hand memory". Rather, you'll see the notes (either physically, or in your head) and instanly know how to move.

[robert_henry]

I should have known there was a term for that!    

Robert Henry