Rage in solo piano...

[alessandro]

A colleague of mine said that one of the things that he liked in Rock-music was this sense of "rage", often in the singing parts, that he couldn't feel in any kind of other music.  I think that what he said was very simple and I was surprised that I never thought about that myself cause there is indeed some truth I think, in this statement.   I felt something like rage in some of the Prokofiev piano-concerto's, and I'm quite sure that there must be more 'rage' to find in other works.   But strangely, I couldn't find one neat example of 'rage' in solo piano-music.   And you ? Is there a piece that comes to your mind, of which you would say 'well, this is rage (or something like 'rage').   I'm not looking for music where fists bang randomly on the notes.   Maybe something with some dissonance in it, I really don't know.

Very kind greetings to you all.

   

[rubygazelle]

I'm all about "rage" in music. In the alt world I love melodic death metal, and that translates into dark classical.

Here's a selection out of my "rage" repertoire:

Chopin Nocturne op. 27 no. 1 (really only the B section of this piece. The rest is quite serene.)
Rachmaninoff Prelude in G minor op 23. no. 5
Liszt sonata in B minor

And need I mention Rachi's Prelude in C sharp minor

[camstrings]

Schubert  Sonata D959 andantino, Chopin 2nd Ballade.

[djealnla]

Try out this:  

Or this:

&feature=related

[djealnla]

Or just try some Finnissy. 

[alessandro]

Already many thanks for these replies rubygazelle and camstrings.   I don't know why I didn't communicate it immediately while creating this topic, I was not immediately expecting these examples and in a certain way, I also did expect Rachmaninoff, Chopin and Schubert.   (Maybe some Scriabin is coming also, or Moussorgsky, I don't know).   I certainly will have a closer look at the Schubert, the Chopin, and the Liszt.  Though, Rubygazelle, I'm familiar with the Rach' 23 n° 5 and the C-minor prelude, but they have not the 'rage' I was looking for.   The C-minor, can be in a certain way raw, loud, screaming and roaring, but, as often in Rach., it feels more like despair for me, a having-reached-the-point-of-no-return-kind-of-feeling.   As for the 23 n° 5, this is for me even very 'scherzando', I feel a lot of black humour in it, troups marching, rusty military tanks and other rolling material that can hardly start again (with this slow reprise of the theme), I feel it as a laughing critique on "war" and the "Army" in general, a tongue-in-cheek march, and no rage at all, this prelude makes me smile.  I'll check out the Chopin Nocturne 27/1 again.  There is, now that I think of it, some 'scream' in the end of the 'Suffocation' prelude of Chopin, but not enough to call it rage.   Also, some of his Scherzo's have really deep, intense feelings, but, I don't feel RRRAGE :-)


I'm looking forward for other examples.   I think, in opposition to an alto-saxophone for example, rage is a feeling that is not easily musically transposable to the piano.   But I think there must be some repertoire somewhere.   Again, I'm really looking for rage, more than for angriness, or intense bitterness.

(I just notice two new answers, while posting this answer, which makes me very happy !, thanks Djealnla, I'll get back here.   I can't listen to the links here at work, no access to 'you tube', I'll do it at home, this evening.)


Very kind greetings to you all.

[opus10no2]

The 'rage' expressed and felt in rock and metal music is primarily based in rhythmic ostinatos performed by the rhythm section and more explicitly the drummer.

Take away the drummer from an audio mix and any powerful orchestra or pianist can compete with the remaining sonic impact.

The reason rock music uses drums is because the music has long periods of constant driving rhythmic force. Classical music never needed this because the music was always intended to be more dynamic and express many shades of feeling within short spaces of time, therefore a constant 'beat' simply wouldn't work with this kind of music.

The emotional heights of fury or 'rage' felt in classical music are more powerful albeit more fleeting as they have to be preceded by a buildup of harmonic and melodic tension.
The emotional impact of a rock song is immediate and holds up through the majority of it's duration, however it never really reaches the same heights of intensity and tension as a classical work can.
Progressive rock and modern classical have both tried to combine elements of both but they tend to lean toward the rhythmic propulsion or the harmonic tension side of things and haven't, yet, to my ears reached a perfect hybrid.

[xtraheat]

This

[orangesodaking]

Brahms B Minor Rhapsody

Brahms in general. Last movement of his first piano concerto is AMAZINGLY powerful and it really "moves" so to say. Here's my favorite performance of it:

EDIT: xtraheat, why don't I see you at Piano World anymore?

[birba]

I think op. 10, no. 2 really hit the nail on the head! 

[orangesodaking]

I think op. 10, no. 2 really hit the nail on the head! 

At first, I thought you were talking about Chopin's Etude or Beethoven's Sonata, and I thought to myself "those pieces aren't very powerful in the sense the original poster is going for."

But then I scrolled up. 

[viking]

Trashy, but with obvious rage.

[birba]

God, I LOVE that!  The cadenza to end all cadenzas!!!!!!!     

[lostinidlewonder]

I get a bit of rage from how many steps there are here.

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff!!!!!

[alessandro]

Thanks already everyone for reacting.

The 'rage' expressed and felt in rock and metal music is primarily based in rhythmic ostinatos performed by the rhythm section and more explicitly the drummer.

Take away the drummer from an audio mix and any powerful orchestra or pianist can compete with the remaining sonic impact.

The reason rock music uses drums is because the music has long periods of constant driving rhythmic force. Classical music never needed this because the music was always intended to be more dynamic and express many shades of feeling within short spaces of time, therefore a constant 'beat' simply wouldn't work with this kind of music.

The emotional heights of fury or 'rage' felt in classical music are more powerful albeit more fleeting as they have to be preceded by a buildup of harmonic and melodic tension.
The emotional impact of a rock song is immediate and holds up through the majority of it's duration, however it never really reaches the same heights of intensity and tension as a classical work can.
Progressive rock and modern classical have both tried to combine elements of both but they tend to lean toward the rhythmic propulsion or the harmonic tension side of things and haven't, yet, to my ears reached a perfect hybrid.

Nice interesting answer.   I do like your point of view that 'things haven't yet reached a perfect hybrid'.   

After listening to all the examples (except Finnissy); I'm still "hungry".   I'm thankful for every proposition, but I only felt some rage in the Pompa Baldi interpretation of the Prokofiev etude 2/1.  The Devil's Staircase is an outstanding piece of work ; I feel smiling sarcasm-like dark juice in it, but no rage.  The two Ornstein's, which I was not familiar with (except Suicide on an Airplane), are very interesting, but... no rage.  (I'm sorry, I'm I difficult, do I miss the point ?)  And yes, the Prokofiev concerto-example, was the example that I was referring to in my initial post, but I'm looking for solo piano.   

So (temporary) conclusion, it's not easy to find rage in solo piano music, and till now Prokofiev has the monopoly.  But there must be 'rage' somewhere.  It's maybe unexplored in solo piano.   

Now I'm going to listen to Finnissy. 

Many thanks and hoping for more, I send you all warm greetings.

[lostinidlewonder]

What about a Rach Sonata?

[opus10no2]

It's interesting, I like to think that classical music isn't a genre, it's a universe of musical wealth at least equal in breadth and variety to that of popular music as a whole, but it's greatest strength is also it's greatest surface weakness. Subtletly and rage don't go hand in hand for most people, they want the immediate buzz of a death metal song, and don't have the patience or inclination to sit and listen to the more intense emotion built up over time in a classical work.

[ramseytheii]

Of course, listen to Richter's bootleg recordings of Transcendental Etudes!

Walter Ramsey

[opus10no2]

Riff/Ostinato based music with heavy percussion will always triumph over any classical piece in expressing rage to the average listener.

If you were to show the above song to someone and tell them that classical music has enough emotional range to equal the rage and aggression on display in the song, they would laugh, would they not?

[orangesodaking]

Between the Buried and Me is better! 

[ch101]

la campanella coda.

[alessandro]

Excuse me for reviving this approximately one year old topic, but I saw and heard yesterday something, well, some here will probably have heard of the Russian composer Oestvolskaja, but for me, it was yesterday the first time and I remember this topic where I was looking for rage in piano-music (beside the famous Prokofiev 2 Cadenza) and I think one can agree that we didn't find much rage and now... well for those who never heard of Oestvolskaja you definitely have to listen to this ; it did remind me of this topic and yes, there is, at least for my ears a little bit of rage in it, if not power.

&feature=related

And this one, is also in a little more pleasant way very interesting (not something for afternoon tea but very poignant)

&feature=related


Kind greetings to you all.

[quantum]

Thanks for posting that.  I'm enjoying those Oestvolskaja vids. 

[teccomin]

Trashy, but with obvious rage.

Why you got to pick one of the worst version on Youtube....

[stoudemirestat]

When I think of rage in the solo piano world, I immediately think of Liszt's masterpiece, the Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations. The rage and questioning of god in some sections is immensely powerful, and the heart-wrenching climax near the end...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Scriabin sonata 7!

He was afraid of his 6th sonata so he made the 7th as an exorcism against his 6th and it's about overwhelming power taking flight.

I think you would really like it.

[grandstaff]

I haven't looked through the whole conversation, and this MUST have been mentioned already, but alot of Prokofiev's music for solo piano (the Suggestion Diabolique Op. 4 no. 4 stands out as an example.) Also some Liszt, like some of the Transcendental Etudes.

[fftransform]

[patrickd]

How about some of Alkan's works such as the symphony for sol piano finale.

[revanyoda777]

I would definitely put Alkan's Easop's feast up there as a piece filled with frenzy and rage. Its set in theme and variations form and is such a turbulent rollercoaster ride. I think you would enjoy it.