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Topic: Ravel or Debussy?  (Read 4171 times)

Offline Nightscape

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Ravel or Debussy?
on: July 29, 2004, 10:40:28 PM
Which do you think was the better composer?
Or perhaps they cannot be compared?
Does anybody think that they deserve the title of
"impressionistic" composers considering that they both hated that name?

Offline DarkWind

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #1 on: July 29, 2004, 10:49:29 PM
They cannot be compared. Their styles are totally different. This same argument has happened 70 + years ago, when they were still alive. Many argued about the music sounding similar. That was just because they were both similar. In reality, their music is much more different. But if I had to choose, it would easily be Ravel, as he is my favorite composer, ever. His music is beautiful, strong, passionate, warm, sometimes childish. Scarbo is fiendish. Alborada del Gracioso is fiery. Jeux D'eau is flowing, rich, and melodious. La Valse is strong, powerful, and sinister. It goes on. He is the only composer I know of who has never composed one single bad piece, ever. He is the only composer whose total works I would easily be able to listen to without ever having to skip a song. Each and every piece is unique, and it is beyond beautiful. Ravel is the greatest composer in my book, period. He is my absolute favorite. :)

Offline dlu

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #2 on: July 31, 2004, 02:05:45 AM
I agree with Darkwind but personally Ravel is my favorite of the two.

Offline amanfang

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #3 on: July 31, 2004, 03:18:20 AM
impressionist - some of their pieces "suggest" ideas rather than describe them.  Impressionist paintings are not full of detail and precision (in a sense) but rather have you look at the whole and come away with an "impression" of something.  I think some of the music of these composers does the same thing.  It gives you swirls of color and a sense of what they are depicting.
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Offline Sketchee

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #4 on: July 31, 2004, 05:37:46 AM
Ravel was Debussy's student wasn't he?  When it comes to piano works, I'd rather play or listen toRavel than Debussy but Debussy is more generally popular.  I love the string quartets by both composers.
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Offline DarkWind

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #5 on: July 31, 2004, 06:56:14 AM
Ravel was a student of Gabriel Faure, mainly.

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #6 on: July 31, 2004, 07:05:59 AM
My vote for listening or performance is Ravel, without a doubt.  I really don't care much for Debussy's piano music, except his ballade and some of the etudes.  I honestly can't think of a Ravel work that I don't like-they're just of such universally high quality.

Offline Rach3

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #7 on: July 31, 2004, 07:44:28 AM
I like Faure! Can we include him too?
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Offline DarkWind

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #8 on: July 31, 2004, 09:12:06 AM
He wasn't an impressionist. He was more of a neo-romantic. Ravel and Debussy are the only two Impressionists worth mentioning. There are a few other, like Cyril Scott, but since he is so obscure and I am probably the only person to have ever had the privilege to hear and play his Lotus Land, he is rather to be excluded.

Offline bernhard

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #9 on: July 31, 2004, 02:07:00 PM
Quote
He wasn't an impressionist. He was more of a neo-romantic. Ravel and Debussy are the only two Impressionists worth mentioning. There are a few other, like Cyril Scott, but since he is so obscure and I am probably the only person to have ever had the privilege to hear and play his Lotus Land, he is rather to be excluded.



Er…

Ravel and Debussy are the most well known (by the way, Debussy hated being classified an “impressionist” a label he rejected vehemently), but all of the ones below are certainly worth mentioning (some had an “impressionist period”):

Erik Satie
Frederic Delius
Paul Dukas
Jacques Ibert
Deodat de Severac.
Arnold Bax
Ottorino Respighi,
Ciryl Scott
Manuel de Falla
Charles Griffes
Ralph Vaughan Williams
Albert Roussel
Bohuslav Martinu
Charles Martin Loeffler

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
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Offline Tash

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #10 on: July 31, 2004, 02:25:33 PM
i like debussy better, maybe because i know his music a lot more than ravel's since all i hear of ravel is his gaspard de la nuit, la valse and bolero.

but in terms of defining debussy as impressionist, he's closer to the symbolist poets than impressionists so i tend to regard his music more as symbolist as he was very influenced by the poets and their ideas
'J'aime presque autant les images que la musique' Debussy

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #11 on: July 31, 2004, 09:16:16 PM
Quote
Ravel was a student of Gabriel Faure, mainly.


Ah thanks for clearing that up!  ;D
Sketchee
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PL2004

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #12 on: August 01, 2004, 11:38:37 PM
hi.. I think Ravel is amazing... His piano concertos are fantastic... This year, i studied his Menuet sur le nom de Haydn, and onde of my colleagues studied a Prelude of Debussy, and I really preferred the Menuet that I played, and all people I know is with my opinion... :) Ravel Rulez..

JK

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #13 on: August 02, 2004, 12:13:07 AM
This is really an unanswerable question. Therefore I wont fall into the trap of saying one is "better" than the other but instead will state which I prefer. I have played a lot of both composers' music, french "impressionist" repetoire is among my absolute favourites, I have to say that it is a hard decision but I would probably go for Debussy. Having read a fair bit about his life I do find him a fascinating person. For example the story about when he first entered the conservetoire in Paris and amazed everyone by being able to create the sounds of city life and traffic etc. at the piano. He was also quite rebellious at times and I get the impression that he lived in his own little wrold a lot of the time.

Debussys' music was revolutionary and was maybe the first real step away from romanticism. It is interesting to note his taste in music as well, he liked Wagner but didn't want to compose like him but at the same time he admired much earlier composers such as Palestrina. Although not always obvious the influence of such music can be heard at times in his music. Ravel was very much influenced by Debussy, by the time Ravel became an established young composer Debussy had ben around for some time. The fact that two great French composers were composing at the same time caused the press to create the idea of a rivalry between the two.

Debussy, in his earlier years as a composer, had to cope with a public that maybe were reluctant to embrace his new approach to such musical elements as harmony and form. It took people a time to understand his music. This is one reason why I think that maybe Debussy is unfairly dismissed, because people don't know how to listen to his music and thus don't understand it. I had a similar difficulty when I first got interested in him, however once you get used to his style it opens up a whole new world of amazing music. Most pianists will know pieces such as clair de lune and Reflets dans l'eau, but how many other pieces of Debussy have you actually heard? What about the images, what about the preludes, what about the orchestral pieces such as prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune, the images, and the incredible la mer? All of these pieces show an amazing imagination and a breathtaking subtlety and attention to detail that not many other composers come close to.

I get the impression sometimes that a lot of people base there perception of Debussy on the experince of one piece that they heard or had to play that they didn't really understand and therefore this has put them off him for good. Yes I admit that he takes some getting used to, there aren't really any tunes as such (not like in say alborado del grazioso) and this takes some getting used to. However it is not tunes that he is wanting to write, his use of harmony is so beautiful and subtle. For example in the second book of images for piano he displays his full range of colours and imagination, from the subtle suggestion of moonlight and sheer beauty of et la lune descend sur le temple qui fut (one of the most magical and hauting pieces ever written for piano, as well as a piece that has the most beautiful use of harmony) to the playful and almost jazz harmony of poisson d'or.

Of course Ravel was a genius as well and wrote many beautiful pieces such as the miroirs etc. however I think I prefer Debussy and I think he is often overlooked.

(sorry I took so long to say that!) :)

Offline fermata_88

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Re: Ravel or Debussy?
Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 07:13:06 PM
WeLL,... i like both of them. They are way too different yet they are still a bit of similarities.

Debussy
-Exotic
-IMpressionistic music
-INterest in french/classical/baroque
-avoids traditional cadence patterns
-his music doesn't go anywhere
-modes, pentatonic, whole tone scale
-freer forms

Ravel
-spanish style
-some impressionism
-coloristic use of soun
-functional harmonies
-extenden chords
-goes somewhere/ raising harmonies
-modes traditional formal structures..

that's pretty much about it.
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