Need Help re: grand piano for home and (hopefully) children playing

[mcnaky5]

Hello.  I am a 41 yr old father of 3 children - 10, 8, and 5.  My two older children have been taking piano lessons for about 1 year...both are doing well.  After playing for about a year when I was younger (30 years ago) I have also begun playing again - about 4 months ago.  My wife, who played violin for a few years in high school, also started lessons about 6 months ago (and finds using both hands a challenge!) but has had to stop briefly while she starts working full time again and needs to find a good work/home rhythm.  We expect that she'll start again - and also that our 4 year old will play in a few years.

We currently have a 1914 Mason and Hamlin full size upright.  It's been in the family for 70 years..and through 2 floods (crack in soundboard as a result).  It's not worth putting 5k into - according to our very well-respected and trusted piano tuner.  It holds a tune well for about 4 months and is a joy to play.  Between this fact and the fact that our piano teacher's Yamaha 6' grand sounds great - we're thinking about a grand ourselves.

The 'piano' room is rectangular, about 17' x 13'.  Normal 8' ceilings.  It's on the first level, which is about 1500 sq ft.
Note - we plan to keep the MH and have two pianos in the house!
So, here are the questions - ultimately - what size piano, and what else to think about?

Thus far, I have read Larry Fine's Piano Guide book from cover to cover 3 times.  For resons he discusses, and my inherent bias due to owning one, I find myself leaning toward another Mason and Hamlin.  I've found that, among other things, their notably thicker rims cause me to think that there's a difference in the long term quality....???Am I crazy?  I've been looking for rebuilt pre-1932 Boston-made pianos...

With regard to length...The room can hold a 7 foot piano as easliy as it can a 9' concert grand - but there are obvious concerns about my neighbors calling to ask us to 'tone it down a bit' if we get too large a piano.  Then again. blogs I"ve read on this site suggest that a 9' piano can be managed well - even in a room/house of our size.

Suggestions, thoughts, considerations, details, etc are very much appreciated!  I know that I simply need to go out and play a lot of pianos...which I'm doing.  But others' input is very much respected useful to me.

There's one other reasons I'm seraching for your input here...I am currrently in discussions with my wife re: the  following two issues 1) the size of the piano...I want a larger one - she doesn't.  2) I think that spending a few extra thousand now will be well worth it...as a smart purchase will likely mean that it can be recouped if needed in the future.

Comments on the specific issues mentioned above and anything else related are terrific.

Thank you!!!!
Chris
 

[silverdollarnyc]

When my son was about 3 or 4, and like your kids, was taking lessons and doing well, I started shopping for a piano. I bought a Steinway Model "C" (7'4") that needed work, had the work done, and got a beautiful instrument. It made all the difference in my son's growth as a pianist, compared to other kids at his music school, he always had a better and more varied tone. It worked out in the long run, he's now 17 and is applying to conservatories here in the Northeast (US).

On the sound and neighbors issue, I would look into some acoustical isolation materials. Do a Google for "mass loaded vinyl" and read up about the subject.  Note that this is not the kind of material that they'll sell you at a carpet shop. This is technical, industrial stuff. It's heavy and expensive. But it is effective. I did have a complaint, years ago, and I hung sheet of mass loaded vinyl on the walls near the piano (hidden by decorative quilts), put a sheet under the carpet, and also used these materials to de-couple the legs from the floor - a big source of sound transmission. The neighbor actually thanked me  and told me the piano problem was resolved.

Last, I don't think the size of the piano will make that much difference in terms of disturbing neighbors. But if you're considerate with your hours of playing, and take some steps to reduce the transmission, and if you're neighbors are reasonable people, then you should be ok.

[keys60]

Chris,

All dads should be like you! I don't think the size of the piano is going to make a huge difference in the volume concerning the neighbors. A larger piano will provide more volume should the player take advantage of that, but its really the tonal qualities, fat luscious sounds with rich overtones compared to a sound not quite as full. Its not like a 200 watt stereo compared to 25. Its more about the quality of sound not the quantity. As for Mason Hamlin, I'm with you on that. Once you're in that league, its just a matter of opinion and what feels right to you. M H's are excellent pianos. I personally love them if they are set up to my liking. If you have the space and the funds, go for what your heart desires. A smaller piano would probably disturb the neighbors about as much.

Now lets get to that old gem. 5K is not unreasonable to fix a vintage high quality instrument. That could be retrieved later on if the rebuild is also of high quality.
Cracked soundboards are not that much of an issue either. Destroyed, warped and cracked soundboards can be replaced albeit costly, but a few cracks can be shimmed and seperation from the bridges can be repaired. Do a little research on the tall 48-50" uprights and you'll see the higher end stuff getting upwards of 15-25K, again depending on the restoration job.
I'd love to see the upright if you could provide some pics. I'm a sucker for piano pics.

Good luck with the search and decision making.  Let us know how it turns out.

[thalberg]

Hi Chris,

If you're looking for an older Mason, the 5'8'' model, the 6'4'' model and the 7' model are all absolutely glorious.  They are, in some peoples' opinions, better than similar sized Steinways.

The 9' Masons I have played and heard about are horrible -- don't know why.  So if I ever got a 9', it would be a Steinway.

Just my experience.

[mcnaky5]

Awesome information!  Great thoughts...thank you 

Any ideas re: other brands that tend to hold up well after 60 years?  Is the shape retention of the crown significantly dependent on the thickness of the rim?

[asianpianoer]

oh how I wish i had a wonderful father like you to buy me an amazing piano what 7ft 4... when 3-4 years old
 @silverdollarnyc


okay i would definately not go for 9ft myself.

handmade pianos last longer... apparently european handcrafted ones
i've practiced on crap pianos my whole life, so now i'm getting a better one but .. we need money -.- anyone want to donate?

[keys60]

I would like to add one thing about the Mason Hamlins.....kind of expose the bit "tension resonator" hype. This adds nothing to the tone of the piano. From the way I hear it, MH's have a double rim and the inner rim was warping, so they installed this turnbuckle device to keep equal pressure around the inner rim to prevent the warping. Ok, so now we have this piano with this crutch on it. Do we get laughed at or should we call it something with a usefulness in tone. Sounds better than an "inner rim warping prevention device" doesn't it. Tension resonator. Ohhhh.......how exotic.
Anyhoo, needed to get that of my chest. Mason Hamlins are still on of my favorite pianos and that device would not keep me from wanting one.

[oxy60]

Cris, I think you should get the piano YOU want because at this moment YOU will be the one playing it. MAYBE your family members will be inspired to play it and some may even advance. We sure hope so.

I did exactly the same thing you are planning to do and everyone of us ended up on a different instrument. The grand ended up as an accompaniment instrument. (Even the house was purchased with rehearsals at all hours in mind with neighbors hundreds of feet away.)

Get a piano you will enjoy playing for at least another 40 years!