questions about right hand chords of op.10 no. 12

[Poland]

In this etude, the left hand can be achieved by practising from slow to fast, spending a lot of time, in my case. But the right hand, the chords, which sometimes jumps so quickly, are very hard to conquer.

Can anyone give me any ways or past expereince of doing well in the right hand, for that is where than main melody lies and I don't want it to be weak, un-dynamic etc etc~

thx a lot~!

[joeplaysthepiano]

I'm practicing this etude too.  What I think you should do is practice the chords at a slow tempo, but once you play a chord, immediately jump to the next chord and make sure your fingers are over the keys before depressing them.

    Though you are playing the chords at a slow pace, if you jump as fast as possible between chords, you will teach your hand and arm how to make these jumps when you eventually get to a fast tempo while also maintaining accuracy.  I hope this is clear and above all, I hope this helps.   Good luck

[in_love_with_liszt]

What piece are you guys playing?

[in_love_with_liszt]

Oh Chopin. Sorry. Chopin, Beethoven, Brahms, Alkan I got mixed up for a minute.

[rph108]

I dont think that you should go as fast as possible to each chord. I would start out playing in sections the right hand separately. Start out by moving your hand slowly to each chord and trying to feel the space in between(because your trying to get your hand to  know the space it takes to get to the next chord).

Work your way up in tempo VERY slowly. Dont even practice with the metronome at the beginning. Maybe in a few days try it a very slow speed on the metronome(one that you are absolutely sure you get each chord with).

After a few weeks as your tempo is getting faster if you make any mistakes,  practice very slowly many times without the metronome to get it perfect, and then when you do practice, make sure your move the metronome back down to where you can get the chords easily.

remember, dont push too hard, Ive learned that patience is the key to perfection.

[rph108]

Ive also found that what most people hear are the chords in this piece and most faster pieces. A few mess up with the left hand are generally harder to pick out. This does not mean you dont have to work as hard to get the fast part down well, it just means in order to sound well, the chords must be perfect.

[shasta]

Try not to think of "jumping" between the right hand chords (in the Op.10 No.12 and any other piece), because:

1.  this can often put one in the mindset that the distances between chords are farther and more difficult than they really are

2.  "jumping" implies a vertical motion, which in turn may lead one to raise the hand higher above the keys than necessary

You don't want either of the above.

Chopin is tricky --- simply due to how the music LOOKS on the page, he gets you to assume that the left hand should stay close to the keys for the runs, while the right hand should "leap."  Fooled you.  Both hands/arms should stay relaxed and maintain more of a brushing feel in the horizontal direction.  

Try not to pick your right hand up and far off the keys between chords.  Think of the "negative space" between the right hand chords as a continuation of the chord itself.  Keep your right hand close to the keys and employ more of a sweeping motion with your arm, "crawling" between the chords and maintaining a close relationship with the keyboard even when you're not actually playing it.  This will in turn reduce tension and give you more power for the forte passages.

Ultimately, try to appreciate and continue moving through the negative space of the music (i.e. the places in which you are not depressing the keys, but traveling between them) as much as the notes themselves.  They are as important as the silences in music or negative spaces in artwork.  If you were to paint a picture of a ladder, the holes between the rungs where you can see through to the horizon are just as critical as the shapes which ultimately make up the ladder.

Good luck!

[Poland]

thx a lot everyone~

I just want to make it clear. When you say "negative space", do you mean those keys that I don't press, but will go pass when I move between chords?

Also, will there be a problem that if I do not lift the hand high, there will not be enough forte on the right hand?

thx again~

[shasta]

thx a lot everyone~

I just want to make it clear. When you say "negative space", do you mean those keys that I don't press, but will go pass when I move between chords?

Also, will there be a problem that if I do not lift the hand high, there will not be enough forte on the right hand?

thx again~

1.  Yes, even when you're not actually depressing keys, your hands are still moving and are in a relationship with the keyboard (Chord A and Chord B are written on the music, but it is the path to get from A-B that is not written in ink but equally critical).  It's not as if you're bringing your hands into your lap when there's no note to play at that moment --- they are floating along the keys, moving towards the next notes.

2.  Regarding the forte:  One doesn't need to lift the hand(s) high in order to attain forte --- forte is not generated by the amount of vertical drop of the hands, it is generated by the weight of the back and arms INTO the piano, INTO the keys.  

One can generate the exact same amount of forte by bearing into the piano with the hands already resting gently on the keys than if someone stood 15 feet up on a ladder above the piano and dropped a brick onto the keys.  Which result do you think would sound more pleasing?  Which result would be more accurate note-wise?  Which result would yield greater control?    

You don't need to pick your hands up high and drop them onto the keys to create loudness --- try resting your hands gently on the keys, then apply the weight of your arms and back into the keys, into the piano, to create the forte.  Not only does this give you more control in the amount of the forte, but you will hear a difference in the color of the sound.  You will also be distributing the work (needed to create the forte) throughout your fingers-hands-wrists-arms-shoulders-neck-back...  as opposed to confining it within your wrists and lower arms if you only used an up-down motion.

Also, the more one moves their hands vertically, the less one is moving horizontally (towards the next notes).  Does this make sense?  Vertical motion takes away from horizontal motion.  This becomes especially critical in the Op.10 No. 12, where the tempo is such that you do not have time to spare on vertical motion by lifting your right hand high above and off the keys to get from chord to chord.  One therefore needs to maximize the amount of horizontal motion available in order to get to and prepare for the next chord attack.  This can be achieved by minimizing the amount of vertical attack and applying the weight of your back and arm INTO the keys.

[mh88]

The way that I learned this etude was to play through to get the general idea of what was going on and to learn all the notes, this I did a slow pace....don't try to play it to tempo after an hour.  After I knew the notes it was just a matter of getting my fingers to move fast enough.  To do this, I played the entire etude over and over, and a slower tempo...with no pedal.  None, zip, zilch.  It allowed me to hear specifically where I was going wrong and really helped me get the fingers to fall in the right place.  Once I was able to play it fully with no errors and with no pedal, bumping it up to tempo with pedal was a breeze.  Try it...this sort of annoying learning technique (it really drives you crazy trust me) is also good for op 25 no 1 and no 12.