Concertos with polyrhythm

[sevencircles]

I am looking for pianoconcertos  with polyrhythm

Not polyrhythm during cadenzas or soloparts but more like orchestral polyrhythms.

Any good examples?

[mephisto]

You mean polyrythms created by the piano and the orchestra against eachother, or just polyrythms inside the orchestra?

[sevencircles]

I mean bo

You mean polyrythms created by the piano and the orchestra against eachother, or just polyrythms inside the orchestra?

both,but primarely the orchestra against eachother.

[ahinton]

Where does one start? There must be so many. James Dillon's Andromeda. Xenakis's Synaphai, Keqrops and Erikthon. The piano concerto and several other works for piano and orchestra by Elliott Carter. Most piano concertos written in the past half century or so.

Best,

Alistair

[sevencircles]

Where does one start? There must be so many. James Dillon's Andromeda. Xenakis's Synaphai, Keqrops and Erikthon. The piano concerto and several other works for piano and orchestra by Elliott Carter. Most piano concertos written in the past half century or so.

Best,

Alistair

I am mostly looking for concertos that are primarily tonal.

[pianisten1989]

I am mostly looking for concertos that are primarily tonal.

And, I guess, actual music..

[ahinton]

I am mostly looking for concertos that are primarily tonal.

Then you may find your choice pretty limited, since most works that contain polyrhythmic writing of any degree of complexity are not especially likely to come under the description "primarily tonal".

Is there a particular reason behind your interest / question?

Best,

Alistair

[sevencircles]

[/quote]

Then you may find your choice pretty limited, since most works that contain polyrhythmic writing of any degree of complexity are not especially likely to come under the description "primarily tonal".

Is there a particular reason behind your interest / question?

Best,

Alistair

I considered learning one or maybe more and in general I am not too interested in the standard repertoire. I like Ravels pianoconcerto though but not that much else.

would like a concerto that has been recorded allready 

[ahinton]

I like Ravels pianoconcerto though but not that much else.

Which one? The good one, the other one or both?(!)...

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

Ligeti's piano concerto has a lot of sections that are close to tonal, and that piece is full of different polyrhythms, in both the piano and orchestral parts. It seems to be played so much these days that it is entering the standard repertoire.

[mephisto]

Which one? The good one, the other one or both?(!)...

Best,

Alistair

The one wich I am sure you consider "the good one" is actually worse than "the other one".

Villa Lobos piano concerto No. 1 has a lot of polyrythms if I remember correctly.

[ahinton]

The one wich I am sure you consider "the good one" is actually worse than "the other one".

Which one is that, then?

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

Which one is that, then?

Best,

Alistair

I would bet my live that you consider the one for left hand alone the best.

[ahinton]

I would bet my live that you consider the one for left hand alone the best.

The better, as there are only two, but yes - you would win.

Best,

Alistair

[sevencircles]

The better, as there are only two, but yes - you would win.

Best,

Alistair

I prefer the 2 handed concerto 

[ahinton]

I prefer the 2 handed concerto 

Someone has to, Ii suppose! To me, its outcome proves the sheer folly of writing two piano concertos more or less simultaneously when you've never written any previously - even if you're Ravel!

Best,

Alistair

[djealnla]

Sorabji?  Tonal, yet rhythmically as wild as it gets.

[retrouvailles]

Sorabji?  Tonal, yet rhythmically as wild as it gets.

Yes, his Piano Concerto No. 2 is quite a polyrhythmic piece quite similar to his Piano Sonata No. 1 that would be a good concerto, that is, if you have a technique to rival Donna Amato, who is one of the few (if not only) to perform this piece.

[mephisto]

What about Prokofiev piano concerto no. 5? Very difficult, but it sure kicks ass

[richard black]

One of Chisholm's piano concertos (sorry, don't have any scores to hand so can't be specific) is pretty heavy on polyrhythms.

[thalbergmad]

Despite hearing both of the Chisholm Concerti, I could not tell as i don't know what a polyrythm sounds like. Also, despite having both the scores in front of me I still could not tell as I don't know what a polyrythm looks like either.

The only purpose of my post is to advise that I have it on good authority that Hyperion are going to record both.

Thal

[ahinton]

Yes, his Piano Concerto No. 2 is quite a polyrhythmic piece quite similar to his Piano Sonata No. 1 that would be a good concerto, that is, if you have a technique to rival Donna Amato, who is one of the few (if not only) to perform this piece.

For the sake of avoidance of confusion, Donna Amato is indeed the only pianist ever to have performed Sorabji's Piano Concerto No. 5 (the one published as no. 2) - the performance took place in Utrecht, Netherlands in 2003 - although it has perhaps rather more in common with the composer's second published piano sonata than with his first. It's a remarkable single-movement piece, quite unlike the other Sorabji concertos that surround it. It should have been performed soon after its composition; I suspect that Varèse would have been fascinated by it (as he may have been by Sorabji's first piano quintet which might have been - but in the end never was - premièred in that series of Varèse/Salzedo concerts back in the 1920s).

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

Despite hearing both of the Chisholm Concerti, I could not tell as i don't know what a polyrythm sounds like. Also, despite having both the scores in front of me I still could not tell as I don't know what a polyrythm looks like either.

The only purpose of my post is to advise that I have it on good authority that Hyperion are going to record both.

Thal

Don't worry about the exact definition of a ployrhythm. There are infinite amounts of combinations of rhythms that could be called a polyrhythm, which is why I think this thread is rather pointless in the first place, but hey, it's good to play along.

I haven't heard the Chisholm concertos. How are they?

Here is a note that gives more info on the upcoming Hyperion recording:

https://www.erikchisholm.com/ect/index.php?id=253

[thalbergmad]

I haven't heard the Chisholm concertos. How are they?

Probably best I say nothing, or I will have to spend the rest of my life attempting to justify my comments.

Not my favourite Scottish composer.

Thal