What tempo to choose.

[becky8898]

Hi Everyone - I normally post over on the student board , but this is topic which I thought went better over here. Next month I have a recital and one of my pieces im playing is Chopins op 10 #4 Etude.  When I was younger like 7 0r 8 and playing Mozart Sonatas - the tempo I chose was always just as fast as I could play. Which even then was pretty damm fast.  Now im not so sure.  I have looked at just about every performance on youtube all the way from the lighting fast performance of Richter and Agerich  to the slower but incredibly crystal clear performance of Horowitz.  Not that im comparing myself to them, but it did lead to a question. 

How do you select the tempo you choose.  I mean I know there are general guide lines the music tells you.  But as I said earlier listening to different artists you can see there is still a wide range of styles.  Some people seem to go for the wow factor of very fast virtuosity , while others do not even though they could if they wanted.

So again how do you select what tempo you will play at when performing ? Is it based on your view of the music.  The crowd, the instrument your playing on, your physical condition that day.  Is it the same all the time. 

I really am interested in how others make this determination. 

Thanks in advance so much for your input. 

Cheers , Becky

[omar_roy]

I don't find Chopin's etudes to be particularly musical, and i'm often bored to death hearing people try to churn out an overly romantic rendition.  When played at speed and cleanly, they are exciting and impressive.

Choose a tempo that you won't make the piece play you.  The etudes are exercises in technical ability and control.  So, that means you should play fast enough to show your ability, but also that you're mature enough to keep things under control rather than letting your fingers get away from you.  In other words, don't let speed ruin the clarity of your articulation.  Find the happy medium. 

[richard black]

As someone who quite often gets to perform music I haven't heard from anyone else - hence no preconceptions about how fast it 'should' go - I can only say I aim for a speed where it seems to me to make musical sense. You just have to trust your instincts, really. Obviously tempo indications help to some extent but 'Allegro', 'Andante' etc. are pretty vague.

[gyzzzmo]

What i do, is determing what type of piece it is first. Does it have an obvious melody then you let the notes be guided by how you think the melody should sound like, combined with the vague indications the composer wrote down.
When it doesnt really have an obvious melody (in case of opus 10/4), you have to think about what you think the goal and atmosphere of the piece is/should be. Then you can try out at what speed you think that goal/atmosphere is expressed best at.

To my opinion the goal of this piece is showing (and gaining) technique, in a stress-like and heretic atmosphere. That means it has to be played clearly, fast but with still enough control to make those short and explosive volumechanges even.

And remember, technique always serves musicality

Gyzzzmo

[stevebob]

Although virtuosi tend to play all of Chopin's fast-tempo etudes as fast as possible, consider that Chopin only used the term Presto for two of them.  Op. 10 No. 4 is one of those, so you should probably play it as fast as you can without sacrificing accuracy or control.

[becky8898]

Hey thanks for your answers guys. Of course none of your answers really  told me anything. but I did learn one thing from this topic.  I shouldnt ask dopy questions that really are all subjective anyway. 

Cheers, Becky

[gyzzzmo]

Hey thanks for your answers guys. Of course none of your answers really  told me anything. but I did learn one thing from this topic.  I shouldnt ask dopy questions that really are all subjective anyway. 

Cheers, Becky

You asked how to determine the speed, and i gave pretty much answer how i determine it. What more would you like?

[becky8898]

Hey Gyzzzmo. You gave a great answer. Like I said it wasnt you answering it was me asking the wrong question. Not making myself clear. In fact the more I think about it , the stupider my question becomes.  Ok let me try and explain. I think what I really wanted to know was why Horowitz plays this etude in around 2 minutes five seconds and Richter and Agerich 30 seconds faster. Get the point, its silly. How would anyone here know the answer to that.  Its there artistic interpertation since obviously Horowitz could play just as fast as they did. Its just me looking for answers which really ill only find inside myself. I hope you understand.

Thanks again for the answer , I really do appreciate it.

Cheers, Becky

[gyzzzmo]

Well, the question isnt really that strange.
Especially this etude is pretty much the only etude in the chopin repetoire of wich goal is to show technique. And maybe that is the reason why Argerich, Richter and Horowitz have those insanely fast performances of this piece; because its the only Chopin etude where you can do it.
So you could say it is quite a nice example for your question 'what tempo to choose'

Gyzzzmo

[m1469]

So again how do you select what tempo you will play at when performing ? Is it based on your view of the music.  The crowd, the instrument your playing on, your physical condition that day.  Is it the same all the time.

I think that these elements do, and if you are a performing artist must, play a role in the fine-tuning of a tempo and rhythmic organization.  However, fundamentally, the structure of the piece gives the raw ore to work with individually, and in a sense, that doesn't exactly change (though our perception will be that it does ... as we mature, as our concept changes, etc.).

I currently believe that all tempi and sense of pulse are superficial or imposed upon the music which are not consciously and thoughtfully organized around the structure of the piece.  What gives a piece an actual pulse is not truly the performer, it is the sense of direction that the music itself has, which is tied to points of arrival within the music.  If you look at a piece in that way, considering where the major points of arrival are (to start with), and you consider the overall pulse of those (how close together in time do I want the movements to be?, for example), everything else gets organized within those parameters.  So, even if you do end up taking something as fast as you can possibly go, the first question isn't how fast can I go?  The first question is how fast you think the ideas should occur and unfold, and that is firstly based on the core ideas that the music represents, and then, yes, may be fine-tuned according to what you metioned above.  And, that is all assuming that a person can essentially choose any tempo they want and are not limited by ability.

[becky8898]

THank you m1469 for a very nice answer. Gives me lots to think about. 

Cheers, Becky