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Topic: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"  (Read 30910 times)

Offline thalbergmad

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Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
on: January 30, 2011, 09:50:49 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/8291272/Queens-composer-demands-clampdown-on-piped-muzak.html

Little article that has been doing the rounds in some newspapers today.

Well Sir Maxwell Davies, personally I would rather go shopping and hear the mindless jingles  than listen to your "Quartet" again.

Good luck with the Royal Wedding music.

Luv

Thal :-*
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 10:17:08 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/8291272/Queens-composer-demands-clampdown-on-piped-muzak.html

Little article that has been doing the rounds in some newspapers today.

Well Sir Maxwell Davies, personally I would rather go shopping and hear the mindless jingles  than listen to your "Quartet" again.
And your point (if you have one) is?...

This is not about PMD's music but about the muzak thing. I cannot agree with PMD enough about this. Who needs this crap? What messages does it send to people about music and the experience of listening to it? For me (OK, I'm a composer, so I would say this, wouldn't I), music demands the full attention of the listener and it must be worthy of that attention. The entire notion of background muzak is an insult not only to music and musical creativity itself and to its composers but to its genuine listeners without whom we composers would be struggling.

Good for Stephen Fry, Joanna Lumley and the rest for joining in with all those who inveigh against this nonsensical misuse of music.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 10:27:07 PM
And your point (if you have one) is?...

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 10:34:15 PM
music demands the full attention of the listener and it must be worthy of that attention.



Agreed, but do you honestly think this is worthy???

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 10:36:58 PM

Who needs this crap? What messages does it send to people about music and the experience of listening to it?



And who needs this? What message does it send?

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #5 on: January 30, 2011, 11:03:14 PM
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Possibly, or possibly not, but since I do not live in one myself (as you know), it's not really for me to say one way or the other.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 11:05:05 PM


Agreed, but do you honestly think this is worthy???
For all that PMD's Sonata for trumpet and piano is a very early work of his, my answer is yes.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 11:10:56 PM


And who needs this? What message does it send?
To answer your questions about this also very early PMD work (i.e. of some half century's vintage) in the order in which you pose them:
1. all those who do
2. whatever message each individual listener will derive form the experience of listening to it - i.e. just as is the case with any given quartet of Mozart, Xenakis, Haydn, Bartók, Brahms, Shostakovich, Holmboe, Simpson, Maconchy...

And, while we're about it, what of the "messages" sent by, say, Elliott Carter's Piano Sonata which dates from 1945-46 (since we are talking here about early works by living composers)?...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 11:18:57 PM
You never seem to miss an opportunity to bring up Carter.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 11:51:24 PM
You never seem to miss an opportunity to bring up Carter.
Not really the case, actually, but the cap nevertheless seems to fit here, methinks, given the vintage of the PMD works of which you write. Anyway, there's Carter (since you mention him) probably bemoaning the low age at which some of the best of American composers are prone to die these days, the demise of the almost 95-year-old Milton Babbitt in recent hours arguably being an illustrative case in point.

My point is not, of course, "about" Carter as such but a response to what you had written about PMD, his junior by almost three decades.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline minor9th

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 12:16:57 AM
I like PMD's music very much, especially his Piano Sonata, Symphonies, Piano Concerto, and all 10 "Naxos" String Quartets. Not so big on his vocal music, though. I also agree 100% with his comments about muzak.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 06:23:15 AM
I also completely agree with his comments on muzak. I also knew that once I saw that the author of thread was thal, I knew he was going to throw in a negative comment toward him. Nothing against thal, but Maxwell Davies' music took me a long time to appreciate, and I still admit to not really knowing what is going on in his music. I still come back to it and listen, though. It has that curiosity and interest factor, even if I don't understand it. Mind you, I've only heard his symphonies and some piano music, for the most part.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 08:27:32 AM
To answer your questions about this also very early PMD work (i.e. of some half century's vintage) in the order in which you pose them:


An early work eh. Perhaps I ought to try some later ones.

Maybe he gets better.

Anyway, I am off to Bluewater Shopping Centre later where I will no doubt come into contact with mindless jingles. Hopefully, HMV will not have said Trumpet work on their loudspeakers.

Thal
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Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #13 on: January 31, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
I could not agree more with PMD on the issue of the mindless draggle (not unusually at some serious dB level at that) that bombards one when shopping, waiting on the phone for half an hour to get to speak to someone at whatever company, or where and whenever. Yèch to the power of n...
Not that I would suggest playing Bach or Mahler instead, but it seems that sense of the quality of peace and quiet are all but out of the window these days. People seem increasingly unable to do anything at all when they do not have at least 100dB of noise in their ears. Probably because they feel threatened of using their brains, and seek ways to drown it out.

As for PMD hisself, pity Collins went down the drain. Hopefully Naxos will take things up!

all best,
gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline scottmcc

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #14 on: January 31, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
while I find muzak to be abhorrent, I must say that background music when one is on hold is really of some benefit, as it lets you know that the call has not been disconnected.  of course, I would prefer a less noxious reminder that the call is still in progress, and that I'm still waiting to figure out the cable bill (or whatever else I'm holding for), but then again, finding a suitable replacement is tougher.

now when it comes to muzak while I'm trying to navigate the mall or other public places, I would very much prefer silence or actual live music.  Nordstrom's and other "nice" department stores still have a lounge pianist from time to time--why can't the trend be extended?

by the way, the Muzak Corporation headquarters is across the street from one of the places where I've worked.  for a great many years I thought it was just an epithet applied to crap music, but it really is a real company.  ugh.

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 01:11:42 PM
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I must say that background music when one is on hold is really of some benefit, as it lets you know that the call has not been disconnected.
I'd prefer something like "there are [you must be KIDDING!!] people waiting before you", or "the expected waiting time is [you say WHAT??] minutes". And why not (this is the computer age after all) the give a menu like: "Press one if you want to wait with Bach, press two if you want to wait with the current top 10, press three if you want to wait with golden olden, press four if you want to wait with "there are currently x people before you"". Should be possible, yes?

All best,
gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #16 on: January 31, 2011, 03:58:42 PM
I'd prefer something like "there are [you must be KIDDING!!] people waiting before you", or "the expected waiting time is [you say WHAT??] minutes". And why not (this is the computer age after all) the give a menu like: "Press one if you want to wait with Bach, press two if you want to wait with the current top 10, press three if you want to wait with golden olden, press four if you want to wait with "there are currently x people before you"". Should be possible, yes?
I'm sure that it would be, but I can just imagine the first outfit to try it giving out a msessage saying "press 1 for Bach; this will attract a premium of £x on the cost of your call", etc.

Funny that you should mention Bach before any other music in the context of Bachground muzak...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline richard black

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #17 on: January 31, 2011, 04:45:52 PM
In about 1937, if I remember correctly, Constant Lambert wrote an article entitled 'The Appalling Popularity of Music' making exactly the same point that PMD has just made. (The article is reprinted in the excellent collection of Lambert's writings, 'Music Ho!', Pelican Books.)
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline oxy60

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #18 on: January 31, 2011, 05:41:01 PM
For people on this board silence would indeed be golden.

Muzak is not only a company but it also employs musicians to record their custom arrangements of what they think you wish to hear. In the past they had different feeds for various situations and within those feeds varied the content to suit the hour and needs of different industries; sorting mail, assembly line, bank lobby, etc. 

I would not be in favor of complicated background music such as we practice or compose.

And Gep, aren't those TV's on the trams terrible?
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 06:11:34 PM
For people on this board silence would indeed be golden.

Muzak is not only a company but it also employs musicians to record their custom arrangements of what they think you wish to hear. In the past they had different feeds for various situations and within those feeds varied the content to suit the hour and needs of different industries; sorting mail, assembly line, bank lobby, etc. 

I would not be in favor of complicated background music such as we practice or compose.
OK, but are you against the use of any kind of "background music"? Personally, I can see no useful purpose served by music on hold on phones, music in hotel lobbies and elevators or music in other public places that is not there to be listened to. All worthwhile music is written / improvised in order that due attention be paid to it by listeners.

The question of live background music is a rather different matter. When music is performed live at a wedding, a company dinner or whatever, the listeners can see as well as hear what is going on and might be more likely to spend a little time actually listening rather than ignoring it as anything more than mere wallpaper. I know this from past personal experience in the days of my mis-spent youth when I used to play the piano a little; I ran a piano trio that performed at such functions and at coffee mornings, wine tastings and all sorts of occasions and there were always people who paid more attention from time to time to the music being played than the notion of "background" music might otherwise have led on to presume, although the rare occasions when someone would come up and ask - seriously - for "Brahms's Trio in C major" or "a movement from Tchaikovsky's Trio" (like there's only two and look at the size of them!) did cause no small amount of consternation (and yes, those did actually happen - as did a request for Dikhthas at a university graduation dinner from a clever-clogs student, to whom I responded that not only did I think Xenakis not quite appropriate for the occasion but that I wasn't about to give the cellist time off). I do recall on one occasion having someone come up and compliment the ensemble by saying how refreshing it was to have this music rather than "boring muzak".

An amusing story that I once heard from a violinist who did this kind of thing many years ago concerned an occasion when he and his chums entered a bar-rerstaurant on the Argentinian coast where a piano trio were performing tangos; the others dared him to walk up to the trio and ask if they could play Schubert's Trio in B flat. When he did so, there was much head-scratching and worried-looking scrabbling around amoung a library of music but finally the Schubert was found and they played the whole work, whereupon our violinist went up and thanked them, adding "but I only asked if you could". He did live to see another day, otherwise I would not have heard that tale.

There is another story that Elliott Carter, who cannot stand piped muzak anywhere, was once asked how he would respond if he heard his own music piped in a hotel elevator, to which he is reported as having replied "I'd press the red emergency button".

This leads us back to the topic, which is Sir PMD's vilification of "piped muzak"; he deserves our wholehearted support for drawing attention to a phenomenon that effectively demeans music.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 07:11:25 PM

There is another story that Elliott Carter, who cannot stand piped muzak anywhere, was once asked how he would respond if he heard his own music piped in a hotel elevator, to which he is reported as having replied "I'd press the red emergency button".

Personally, I would be inclined to take the stairs if I heard Carter in an elevator.

Perhaps at his advanced age he no longer has a choice.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 07:24:10 PM
Personally, I would be inclined to take the stairs if I heard Carter in an elevator.

Perhaps at his advanced age he no longer has a choice.
Take them where? No, seriously, at your somewhat less advanced age, you wouldn't have a choice either, because if you heard Carter in an elevator, you would already be in the elevator, so you be unable to take the stairs. In the event, however, it is not an especially likely contingent.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 07:35:48 PM
On entering said elevator, I would hear the Carter and then immediately press the button of the floor number I was on, thus opening the doors and allowing an escape.

However, I have not used an elevator for about 20 years, so they might have changed.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 08:24:05 PM
On entering said elevator, I would hear the Carter and then immediately press the button of the floor number I was on, thus opening the doors and allowing an escape.
So you would recognise and be able instantly to identify any music as being by Carter, then? Your familiarity with his work must therefore be infinitely greater than mine! Good for you!

But supposing Mr Carter himself happened to be in the elevator at the same time?...

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Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 08:49:52 PM
So you would recognise and be able instantly to identify any music as being by Carter, then?

Yes, I would start to vomit.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #25 on: January 31, 2011, 10:38:21 PM
Yes, I would start to vomit.
Never mind your mis-spelt Vimto, Thal; what I asked was whether you could instantly recognise Carter's music anywhere and, if your "yes" is to be taken specifically as an affirmative answer to that question, then so be it, yet somehow I suspect that it might be rather less than a wholly honest answer; please correct me, however (preferably with some supporting evidence) if you genuinely believe with good reason that I am entirely wrong in my assumption here...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline mephisto

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #26 on: January 31, 2011, 10:52:13 PM
OK, but are you against the use of any kind of "background music"? Personally, I can see no useful purpose served by music on hold on phones, music in hotel lobbies and elevators or music in other public places that is not there to be listened to. All worthwhile music is written / improvised in order that due attention be paid to it by listeners.

The question of live background music is a rather different matter. When music is performed live at a wedding, a company dinner or whatever, the listeners can see as well as hear what is going on and might be more likely to spend a little time actually listening rather than ignoring it as anything more than mere wallpaper. I know this from past personal experience in the days of my mis-spent youth when I used to play the piano a little; I ran a piano trio that performed at such functions and at coffee mornings, wine tastings and all sorts of occasions and there were always people who paid more attention from time to time to the music being played than the notion of "background" music might otherwise have led on to presume, although the rare occasions when someone would come up and ask - seriously - for "Brahms's Trio in C major" or "a movement from Tchaikovsky's Trio" (like there's only two and look at the size of them!) did cause no small amount of consternation (and yes, those did actually happen - as did a request for Dikhthas at a university graduation dinner from a clever-clogs student, to whom I responded that not only did I think Xenakis not quite appropriate for the occasion but that I wasn't about to give the cellist time off). I do recall on one occasion having someone come up and compliment the ensemble by saying how refreshing it was to have this music rather than "boring muzak".

An amusing story that I once heard from a violinist who did this kind of thing many years ago concerned an occasion when he and his chums entered a bar-rerstaurant on the Argentinian coast where a piano trio were performing tangos; the others dared him to walk up to the trio and ask if they could play Schubert's Trio in B flat. When he did so, there was much head-scratching and worried-looking scrabbling around amoung a library of music but finally the Schubert was found and they played the whole work, whereupon our violinist went up and thanked them, adding "but I only asked if you could". He did live to see another day, otherwise I would not have heard that tale.

There is another story that Elliott Carter, who cannot stand piped muzak anywhere, was once asked how he would respond if he heard his own music piped in a hotel elevator, to which he is reported as having replied "I'd press the red emergency button".

This leads us back to the topic, which is Sir PMD's vilification of "piped muzak"; he deserves our wholehearted support for drawing attention to a phenomenon that effectively demeans music.

Best,

Alistair

I assume you are older than me, but I will still ask you this question....
What do you think about background music when friends meet to drink a few beers at someone's place? Some of them might be listening to the music, others might be talking about something completely different. Keep in mind that the friends will be choose the music themselves.

While I agree with you somehow, I appreciate this kind of socializing.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #27 on: January 31, 2011, 10:59:51 PM
What do you think about background music when friends meet to drink a few beers at someone's place?

Alistair would know nothing about people who drink beer.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #28 on: January 31, 2011, 11:06:40 PM
I assume you are older than me
Never assume what you may be unable to prove!

but I will still ask you this question....
What do you think about background music when friends meet to drink a few beers at someone's place? Some of them might be listening to the music, others might be talking about something completely different. Keep in mind that the friends will be choose the music themselves.

While I agree with you somehow, I appreciate this kind of socializing.
Are you talking about recorded muzak, live musical accompaniment or either? I'll try to answer your question as best I can once you have answered mine.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #29 on: January 31, 2011, 11:08:03 PM
Alistair would know nothing about people who drink beer.
Why do you seek to claim such a thing just because you happen to know that I do not drink the stuff myself? Logical thinking and reasoning appears to elude you at present.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #30 on: January 31, 2011, 11:34:45 PM
what I asked was whether you could instantly recognise Carter's music anywhere

Yes.

I only need one Nurofen to cope with Carter.

Thal
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Offline minor9th

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #31 on: February 01, 2011, 12:51:16 AM
An early work eh. Perhaps I ought to try some later ones.

Maybe he gets better.
Thal

Try his Piano Sonata--you may not walk around humming it, or ever hear it while on hold, but it's quite a powerful and virtuosic work.

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #32 on: February 01, 2011, 06:59:42 AM
Funny that you should mention Bach before any other music in the context of Bachground muzak...
Hmm, yes, well, when I think of "good music I'd like to hear" my beloved JS pops up rather automatically. But perhaps I was a bit sacrilegous when suggesting Him for phone music....

Muzak (...) employs musicians to record their custom arrangements of what they think you wish to hear. In the past they had different feeds for various situations and within those feeds varied the content to suit the hour and needs of different industries; sorting mail, assembly line, bank lobby, etc. 

If so, then Muzak got things so very wrong, at least with me....

I wonder how desperately poor you have to be as musician to prostitute your talents producing muzak... :P

Quote
And Gep, aren't those TV's on the trams terrible?
I wouldn't know since the only times I was on a tram in the last ten years or so were last June travelling to and from Sorabji's Organ Symphony II in Amsterdam, at which occasions I do not recall any TV's on the tram. I may have blocked them out though...

I wonder how Thal on banjo would sound when waiting on the phone, or being in an elevator.... ;D

Quote
Alistair would know nothing about people who drink beer.

Thal
You mean he doesn't know anything about you? ;)

all best,
gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #33 on: February 01, 2011, 12:38:12 PM
h

It is very interesting that you should use this letter.

It is the 8th letter of the alphabet and if you put the numbers 190 in front of 8, you get 1908 which was the year that a rather famous American Composer was born.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #34 on: February 01, 2011, 01:32:03 PM
It is very interesting that you should use this letter.

It is the 8th letter of the alphabet and if you put the numbers 190 in front of 8, you get 1908 which was the year that a rather famous American Composer was born.
Indeed. Christ was allegedly born in a stable some 1900 years before that, but the said famous American Composer was not born in an elevator but in a hospital. On the day before the said famous American Composer's birth, his father had attended the world première in New York of Skryabin's Poème d'Extase and apparently hated it; meanwhile on that day in Avignon, Messiaen was born.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #35 on: February 01, 2011, 07:49:59 PM
Christ was allegedly born in a stable

So was Red Rum.

I fail to see your point here.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #36 on: February 01, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
It is very interesting that you should use this letter.

It is the 8th letter of the alphabet and if you put the numbers 190 in front of 8, you get 1908 which was the year that a rather famous American Composer was born.

Thal
And if you go numerological with 1908 you get 9 (1+9+0+8=18; 1+8=9). According to what I found 9 stands for 'wise counsellor, spiritual leader, seeker en teacher of the truth. Idealists and capable of making ideals become real'. Go figure...

gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #37 on: February 01, 2011, 08:36:08 PM
So was Red Rum.

I fail to see your point here.
So I'd noticed. My point was merely to illustrate that the place of Christ's birth is alleged to be a stable whereas that of the famous American Composer whom you mention was not an elevator - no more, no less. Red Rum doesn't enter into it at all, either in equestrian or alcoholic terms.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline mephisto

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #38 on: February 01, 2011, 08:46:38 PM
Never assume what you may be unable to prove!
Are you talking about recorded muzak, live musical accompaniment or either? I'll try to answer your question as best I can once you have answered mine.

Best,

Alistair

Recorded music.

Keep in mind the ocation. Friends who meet before they are going out on the town or something. If you have never done such a thing you might be unable to answer the question.

Offline oxy60

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #39 on: February 02, 2011, 03:41:02 AM
I wouldn't know since the only times I was on a tram in the last ten years or so were last June travelling to and from Sorabji's Organ Symphony II in Amsterdam, at which occasions I do not recall any TV's on the tram. I may have blocked them out though...

You must lead an idyllic life, not riding the trams of Amsterdam. They such wonderful sources of local color.

"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."  John Muir  (We all need to get out more.)

Offline john11inc

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #40 on: February 02, 2011, 03:53:54 AM
Peter Maxwell Davies' music is worse than the crap heard in elevators.  At least elevator music doesn't pretend it's worth something, and it gives you something to make fun of with your friends.  You can really only get much enjoyment out of making fun of Peter Maxwell Davies with your snobby, contemporary music friends, who may be unable to attend the mall with you.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #41 on: February 02, 2011, 07:51:52 AM
You must lead an idyllic life, not riding the trams of Amsterdam. They such wonderful sources of local color.
Gep does not live in Amsterdam.

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Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #42 on: February 02, 2011, 08:05:14 AM
Gep does not live in Amsterdam.

Best,

Alistair
Indeed not! The Netherlands may be small, but it is still mercifully possible to live quite remote from it! At my stay in Amsterdam, I had the very good fortune to find a splendid B&B at the edge of the Vondelpark, being in the same street as the Orgelpark where Sorabji happened.

Quote
You must lead an idyllic life, not riding the trams of Amsterdam
If that is the defenition of idyllic, quite a few people should live an idyllic life! But I do live in a just-over-700-people town, at the edge of the biggest river in The Netherlands.
Which is considerable more idyllic, if not more ideal, than living in Amsterdam, trams or not!

Peter Maxwell Davies' music is worse than the crap heard in elevators.  At least elevator music doesn't pretend it's worth something, and it gives you something to make fun of with your friends.  You can really only get much enjoyment out of making fun of Peter Maxwell Davies with your snobby, contemporary music friends, who may be unable to attend the mall with you.
Ah, the "I do not like it so it is crap" stance again. Personal taste and preference equated with absolute truth. You have a lot of snobby friends then, do you?

all best,
gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #43 on: February 02, 2011, 08:30:14 AM
I think Mr 11cm was taking the piss.

Anyway, I am prepared to change my stance on PMD. Listening to Frank Martin last night illustrated what real crap sounds like.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #44 on: February 02, 2011, 09:06:17 AM
Quote
what real crap sounds like.
Last time I checked: "splot". Rather unlike Martin, even if I no great fan of his either... ;D

Quote
I am prepared to change my stance on PMD.
Good fer'yah!

gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #45 on: February 02, 2011, 09:33:36 AM
I think Mr 11cm was taking the piss.
I think Monsieur l'Onze might take the umbrage...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline richard black

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #46 on: February 02, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
Quote
Listening to Frank Martin last night illustrated what real crap sounds like.

That genuinely surprises me, Thal old chap. I've long been fond of Martin's music and, knowing a little of your tastes, would have thought you might find it at least passingly attractive.

But it would make rubbish background music, I'll gladly concede that.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline gep

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #47 on: February 02, 2011, 10:26:12 AM
I think Monsieur l'Onze might take the umbrage...

Best,

Alistair
My English is lacking (again); hasn't "umbrage" something to do with "fooly age"?

If rabbits play the banjo of love, what is the music of food? (Muzak?)

all best,
gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #48 on: February 02, 2011, 12:24:25 PM
That genuinely surprises me, Thal old chap. I've long been fond of Martin's music and, knowing a little of your tastes, would have thought you might find it at least passingly attractive.

Well, perhaps the Piano Concerto No.1 was not a good place to start with Martin as it appears to be an early work in the style of Schoenberg perhaps.

Never the less, a friend of mine is almost beyond pleasure at the moment listening to this piece and I am in a state of bewilderment. It starts with someone attempting to play the flute whilst someone else bangs a drum.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline mephisto

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Re: Sir Peter Maxwell Davies criticises "piped muzak"
Reply #49 on: February 02, 2011, 01:45:40 PM
It is very interesting that you should use this letter.

It is the 8th letter of the alphabet and if you put the numbers 190 in front of 8, you get 1908 which was the year that a rather famous American Composer was born.

Thal

4th best comment in pianostreet history?

Me thinks ;)
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