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Topic: Beethoven Appassionata (Read 13287 times)

monkeydudexd

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My number one piece I want to learn for the piano has been (for quite a while) Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata Op. 57 Mvt 3. I would most likely start it in June or July because of other pieces I am learning for competitions and recitals right now. I was wondering you all think I'm ready for such a monstrous piece based on my current repertoire. Just as a note, I never move on from a piece until I can play it to absolute perfection.

Significant pieces I have played:
Beethoven Sonata No. 8 Op. 13 Mvt 1, Pathetique
Beethoven Sonata No. 17 Op. 31 No. 2 Mvt 1, Tempest
Beethoven Sonata No. 27 Op. 90 Mvt 1
Bach Italian Concerto Mvt 3
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Mozart Sonata K. 284 Mvt 1
Mozart Sonata K. 310 Mvt 1

If you think I'm not ready yet, please recommend a piece of lower caliber but maybe of similar style. Thanks!

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

becky8898

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 06:31:50 AM

Just a thought you might actually want to finish a Beethoven Sonata . You know like do all of the movments before moving on. One thought would be to finish the moonlight . I think you should have the last movment in the bag before moving on to OP 57. In fact now that I think about it you should finish the tempest also.

Cheers, Becky

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omar_roy

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 06:57:23 AM

Becky is right on the money, except I would suggest finishing a Mozart Sonata first, then finishing up some of the Beethovens before starting Appassionata.

Is there any particular reason you're only doing single movements?

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monkeydudexd

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 07:31:21 AM

Just to clear up something, I never played moonlight you might be getting no 27 mixed up with op 27. I play single movements of pieces because those are the movements I enjoy the most. I have a thing for not really giving my all for pieces I don't wholeheartedly enjoy which is kind of a bad habit. I don't really want to finish a Mozart sonata because I prefer Beethoven and while wouldn't mind finishing the pathetique or tempest, I only have a year left before college and would like to put my time into one or two difficult pieces.

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

scottmcc

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 11:08:31 AM

any of the beethoven sonatas you mentioned should have ample difficulties in any of the movements. I share your love of isolated movements, but there is definitely an expectation (especially as you get further in your education) that you will truly finish a piece, meaning playing all of the movements. and I must say, if you don't wholeheartedly enjoy all 3 movements of Op 31 #2, then you probably don't like Beethoven that much.

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pianisten1989

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 11:52:37 AM

I have the same suggestion as basically everyone else. When, and if, you're going to play a professional recital, you'll need a full work. Some movements here and there is really not a good thing. Finish what you've started, before you go on to something new.

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monkeydudexd

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 12:15:43 PM

I don't really enjoy the second mvt of the tempest, but I don't think that means I don't love Beethoven. He is by far my favorite composer and I don't think my choosing to play a full sonata or not reflects that. For most competitions and recitals, they allow seven to eight minutes of music at most. As I mentioned, I am not a professional I am a high school student looking to play what I love before I graduate. I completely understand the benefits of completing an entire work, but my real problem is that I don't realistically have the time. I don't see the problem in playing a single movement because many people seem to do that. Is the problem musical maturity in which you don't think I can handle the third mvt without first playing an entire sonata?

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

birba

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 01:25:18 PM

Quote from: monkeydudexd on February 01, 2011, 12:15:43 PM

I don't really enjoy the second mvt of the tempest, but I don't think that means I don't love Beethoven. He is by far my favorite composer and I don't think my choosing to play a full sonata or not reflects that. For most competitions and recitals, they allow seven to eight minutes of music at most. As I mentioned, I am not a professional I am a high school student looking to play what I love before I graduate. I completely understand the benefits of completing an entire work, but my real problem is that I don't realistically have the time. I don't see the problem in playing a single movement because many people seem to do that. Is the problem musical maturity in which you don't think I can handle the third mvt without first playing an entire sonata?

I can dig what you're saying, but PLEASE listen to the second movement again. It is GLORIOUS!!!

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stevebob

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 01:30:57 PM

Quote from: monkeydudexd on February 01, 2011, 06:03:50 AM

If you think I'm not ready yet, please recommend a piece of lower caliber but maybe of similar style. Thanks!

What does your teacher think about your readiness for Op. 57? (While I don't automatically presume everyone has a teacher, I would conclude that you must if you're participating in competitions and recitals.)

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What passes you ain't for you.

becky8898

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #9 on: February 01, 2011, 03:39:47 PM

Ok to answer your question. no your not ready to play op 57 . Not if you actually intend to play it for anyone other than yourself. And even if you hate it, cant stand it , loathe it , something is wrong if you dont like the second movment of op 31. Your not thinking musically correct. Birba is right it is glorious. Beethoven is a Giant , a musical God, do him justice and play a whole Sonata.

Cheers, Becky

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pianisten1989

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #10 on: February 01, 2011, 04:41:59 PM

I really like 4 bars in the a-flat major ballade, I know! I play them, and just don't care about the rest. Hey, since I don't like it?!

No but seriously, You say you don't have time for the rest of the tempest, or mozart, or.. WHAT THE HELL?! One movement from op 90?! It's a sonata with 2 movements, not 4, but 2! That really upsets me. A lot! Really, how do you think "I don't have time to finish a piece with 2 movements, so I start 3rd movement from appassionata" sound? How do you find time for that?
But fine, after the op 90 I really don't care... Maybe 2nd movement of the waldstein can be something as well! It's only an introduction, but why care about that?
Do whatever you want... If your goal in life is to compete in really low level competition, where you play for seven minutes, fine.

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stevebob

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 05:05:25 PM

Was I off the mark in speculating that the original poster must have a teacher if he or she is doing recitals and competitions?

Wouldn't his or her teacher's advice in this matter be more substantive than that of strangers on the internet?

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What passes you ain't for you.

john11inc

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 05:29:52 PM

The 3rd movement of the Appassionata is notably more difficult than the pieces you mentioned earlier. That is all any of us can say without hearing you. Crap about learning the rest of one of the sonatas is off topic; ignore it.

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monkeydudexd

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 10:16:23 PM

Quote from: pianisten1989 on February 01, 2011, 04:41:59 PM

I really like 4 bars in the a-flat major ballade, I know! I play them, and just don't care about the rest. Hey, since I don't like it?!

No but seriously, You say you don't have time for the rest of the tempest, or mozart, or.. WHAT THE HELL?! One movement from op 90?! It's a sonata with 2 movements, not 4, but 2! That really upsets me. A lot! Really, how do you think "I don't have time to finish a piece with 2 movements, so I start 3rd movement from appassionata" sound? How do you find time for that?
But fine, after the op 90 I really don't care... Maybe 2nd movement of the waldstein can be something as well! It's only an introduction, but why care about that?
Do whatever you want... If your goal in life is to compete in really low level competition, where you play for seven minutes, fine.

Honestly, 4 bars from a ballade is totally different from a movement form a sonata. It's not that I don't care about the sonata, so stop assuming that's the problem. I have every right the play whatever movement I want and however many movements I want. There's nothing wrong with NOT liking a piece of music as much as others. Fact is, I find TIME to play movements because I don't play every movement of every sonata. Also, the competitions I enter are not low level. It is rude to presume so, and almost every competition for high school students have time limits of less than ten minutes. I'm sorry I can't enter the International Chopin Competition or the Tchaikovsky or Liszt Competition where they demand multiple pieces. You are being extremely rude in thinking that my life goal consists of piano competitions because it is not, it's just something I love doing.

I DO have a teacher, and I will get her input on this. I thought this was a place I would be able to just discuss this, it's not like I will take the advice of every person that comments. I was just thinking since my lesson isn't for another week, I could get some friendly input from others. Obviously, I was mistaken.

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

becky8898

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 10:34:54 PM

Hi Monkey , I wont to apologize if I have been rude or insensitive. It was my feeling that to grow as a musican you should get the best possible grasp of some of Beethovens earlier work to lay the foundation for doing op 57. I meant no harm by that and was simply trying to give you my honest opinion on what would be your best course of action. Again, if I was out of line , it wasnt intentional.

Cheers, Becky

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monkeydudexd

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #15 on: February 01, 2011, 10:37:12 PM

It's ok, I mean I know I'm probably over my head anyway and my teacher is going to tell me the same thing. The first part of your post was the part I wanted to hear - yes or no. And it'll probably be a long time before I play it, which is something I'm ok with.

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

pianisten1989

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Posts: 1515

Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 01:47:05 PM

Ok...

I still don't understand how you can find time to play something as difficult as appassionata, when you don't find time to play 2nd mov movement from pathetique.

And what I meant with low level is: It's one of those "Play whatever you want in 7 minutes"-competitions, which means that you can begin your next piece right after the competition. In that way, none build up any repertoire for the major ones, and you end with one movement from several sonatas. Voila!

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monkeydudexd

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 03:39:50 PM

If I played every single movement from every single sonata I've ever played, I would never have time to play anything else. I like spending a lot of time only a single piece because I like to finish it feeling satisfied. I could play the whole pathetique instead of the appassionata, but i LIKE appassionata more. That's why I'd rather play the appassionata. Also, I don't think any competition that has a winner's recital at Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center can be categorized as 'low level.' You also say that by entering these 'low level' ones, I'll never build repertoire for the big ones. Well (as I mentioned above), I'm not planning on entering any major competitions.

Honestly, I really don't need your opinion on this. Other people have helped me on the forum and I have come to the consensus that I'm not going to play it until I think I am truly ready (I'm sure my teacher is going to say the same thing). In the mean time, I'm going to focus on my current competitions with the repertoire I already have and hopefully I will some day arrive at the level necessary to play the appassionata.

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Beethoven Sonata Op. 13 'Pathetique'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 2 'Tempest'
Beethoven Sonata Op. 90
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 17
Bach Italian Concerto

ch101

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 12:16:35 AM

Quote from: monkeydudexd on February 01, 2011, 12:15:43 PM

I don't really enjoy the second mvt of the tempest, but I don't think that means I don't love Beethoven. He is by far my favorite composer and I don't think my choosing to play a full sonata or not reflects that. For most competitions and recitals, they allow seven to eight minutes of music at most. As I mentioned, I am not a professional I am a high school student looking to play what I love before I graduate. I completely understand the benefits of completing an entire work, but my real problem is that I don't realistically have the time. I don't see the problem in playing a single movement because many people seem to do that. Is the problem musical maturity in which you don't think I can handle the third mvt without first playing an entire sonata?

really, the second movement is one one i enjoyed the most throughout the whole sonata

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invictious

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #19 on: February 20, 2011, 03:05:23 AM

I think, we, as pianists, all aspire to achieve different goals. Some want to become the top professional pianists, and would have to learn all of Bach's WTC and all of Chopin etudes and all of Beethoven Sonatas etc. which is needed for an all-rounded pianistic development.

Whereas further down the scale, there are some people who just want to play pieces that they love, without intending to develop maturity as a pianist. They would have a limited repertoire.

If monkeydudexd wants to be the person who just wants to play the pieces he loves, then why should we stop them? Unless he is planning to be a concert pianist or something of that sort, I think we should be encouraging him to learn the Appassionata sonata. Sure he may not be 'musically ready' or 'musically mature' enough do to so, but if just playing that piece is what he wants, then we should applaud him for embarking on this landmark composition.

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lisztomaniac

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #20 on: February 20, 2011, 09:55:57 PM

LIKE EVERYONE SAID, finish your sonatas. Then, I would suggest maybe some rachmaninoff to practice getting a big sound and to work on chords and stuff like that.

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precipitato

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 01:33:27 PM

i guess you're close. just finish up all the movements of your tempest, pathetique, and op.90. i played appassionata after finishing my tempest sonata to a near-perfect quality (yes im even shocked when i play tempest during my prime! now its decomposed, never touched on it for long haha

) all the best!
(i suggest you might want to learn a few etudes, preferably liszt, to avoid any technical difficulty when learning appassionata sonata... its not an easy work X.x)

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asuhayda

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Re: Beethoven Appassionata

Reply #22 on: July 16, 2012, 02:43:11 PM

Hey!

New to the forums.. just wondering if you ever decided to tackle the Appassionata? I love this piece. Very difficult but very beautiful.

I don't come from the camp of "You MUST play this and this and this and this before you are worthy of playing this..." Although, it's smart to be in the realm to avoid spending too long on it (because you could be learning a wide variety of pieces at once).

However, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never get a chance to attempt it... so I say, GO FOR IT!!

It is like what that famous Violinist said (brashly) "I don't know what too hard means.. you can either play or you can't!"

But honestly, even if you can't play it... you'll get it under your fingers. You can always pull it out of the bag later on when you're more developed and you'll already have a head start.

GO FOR IT! GOR FOR IT! Carpe Diem! You never know until you try. (if you haven't already

)

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