Chopin G Minor Ballade

[becky8898]

Hi All. Im working on this Ballade and there is one measure im curious about. Its the measure before the Presto con Fuoco section.  Chopin begins the measure with eight notes in the right hand then he changes to an eight note triplet and then to sixteenth notes.  The notes are getting shorter in value.  And yet, almost every recording I have ever heard of this has the tempo slowing right before the start of the Presto.  Now my score has no temp indications at this point. Nothing to indicate a ritard.  Obviously all this recordings the artists are employing rubato  I cant help but wonder why Chopin wrote it this way. IM sure im missing something since it does seem so natural to slow down a tad before starting the next section. Thanks for any answers. 

Cheers, Becky

[perfect_pitch]

It's mainly done to build this incredible anticipation before the Presto con fuoco section begins...

I mean it's like the final showdown; the climax. Everything before seems to lead up to this section, so it seems only fair to just draw it out and keep the listener in suspense to see what's coming next.

[pianist1976]

Becky, which edition are you using? In mine's (Paderewski) is written "poco rit" at the triplet.

[invictious]

Same with the Cortot edition, there is a poco rit. at the triplet. You are right though, that sometimes the 'poco' is ignored,

As perfect_pitch notes, by slowing down a little bit, it allows the build up of that suspense, that just makes it very difficult to keep your pants on. Just when the coda begins, the contrast makes you want to throw your score out of the window and cry.

[pianisten1989]

I don't know if I misunderstand you, but it is quintuplets, and then four 16th + a poco rit, so why shouldn't it be rit?

[stevebob]

The original French, German and English editions all specify poco ritenuto at bar 207.

Chopin's First Editions Online enables the original editions of every opus to be displayed (in three separate panes for comparison, if you wish):

https://www.cfeo.org.uk/apps/

[becky8898]

Hi everyone thanks for your explanations.  Thats what I get for using a schirmer edition. It doesnt change how im playing it there, but it does give me a better understanding. 

Cheers, Becky

[pianisten1989]

Hi everyone thanks for your explanations.  Thats what I get for using a schirmer edition. It doesnt change how im playing it there, but it does give me a better understanding. 

Cheers, Becky

Ooh, you should really consider changing to Henle or Paderewski, or you might end up with a bunch of wrong notes...

[stevebob]

I never noticed that the poco ritenuto was missing from the Joseffy edition published by Schirmer, so thanks for point that out.

Unfortunately, there are no assurances that details like dynamics, articulations, etc. are original unless one is using an urtext edition.  Otherwise editors generally take some editorial license, and some are far more heavy-handed than others.

Most publishers are prone to the occasional typographical error, too, and Schirmer is no exception.  Still, the engraving of most Schirmer scores is clear and spacious—and Joseffy’s editions of Chopin have the most consistently useful fingerings for my own hands of any I’ve ever seen.

[invictious]

Most publishers are prone to the occasional typographical error, too, and Schirmer is no exception.  Still, the engraving of most Schirmer scores is clear and spacious—and Joseffy’s editions of Chopin have the most consistently useful fingerings for my own hands of any I’ve ever seen.

I think "occasional typographical error" is quite the understatement for Schirmer
I actually think the engraving of most Schirmer scores are unnecessarily dense, making it difficult to read on some scores.

[stevebob]

Could you cite some of the Schirmer editions on which you base your opinion?  Your statement (about the density of the engraving) is so contrary to my own experiences that I'm very curious.  For piano music, it's hard for me to think of any that I would describe as cramped in layout save for the Schumann series edited by Clara, especially when contrasted with their earlier publications of the same pieces by editors like Vogrich and Bauer.

[pianisten1989]

I have both Chopin etudes (mikuli) and Bach (czerny). Bach is probably (read: hopefully) a serious overkill, because of all the wrong notes and rhythms.
It's not that obvious in the Chopin, and I only used it for one lesson. It had some rhythmical... "freedom", and other pedal marks.. probably some wrong notes too.

[ch101]

 i tried different ways to play it and i think that it is to built momentum before that thundering chord. it is solely based on how you intend to express it. it is also quite good in another sense to just push it through. both of which I like .