Tempi and metronome indications, how not to get demotivated

[ignaceii]

I take as example the 1ste study from moszkowski's op 72, per aspera.
In my publication the suitable tempi are 144, and an so described exhilerating 184 in 1/4 tempo.
Now, as an adult student, i assume this is 1 quarter note per beat on the metronome (correct me if i am wrong). The piece is in the right hand mostly in 1/16 ths. So 4 per beat !!!!
For me (144 as well) is very fast, not to mention 184 which is beyond words.
 
Watching some videos on youtube I can imagine some of the youngsters and pro's seem to be able to play these tempi, but IS THIS NECESSARY ?
Are these tempi advises the right thing ? It is labeled vivace, how about prestissimo then (loose your fingers while playing).

Is this only due to the context of the romantic period and later virtuoso periods, but hardly for classical pieces.

How about this. Do you learn as much in a slower tempo, still fast enough, but thoroughly and deeply performed, or is the aim 144 as a minimum.

This is in fact a general question for sortalike studies.
I think it concerns many adults who started later in life with piano, and try to achieve the most, while not having all the muscular junior training obtained in their youth.

I hope you all got the message, and welcome all ideas.


From Belgium
Ignace Erauw

[nystul]

Oh it's not just adult students.  Most child students play fast pieces far too slow.  And it is not just romantic era show pieces.  If a classical piece is marked allegro or vivace, it should be exciting to listen to!  I think this is a constant source of struggle for intermediate level pianists, trying to bring fast pieces up to tempo.  Now I wouldn't take some editor's number as the gospel of how fast to play a given piece.  There is a lot of room for different interpretations.  But if the only reason you play it slower is because that's as fast as you can play it without screwing up, then you haven't really mastered the piece.

You can't force it though.  You have to practice at a tempo where you can play cleanly and with good technique.  It doesn't do much good to play tense and sloppy trying to keep up with a target tempo.

[becky8898]

I think most students child or adult play to fast when first learning a piece and then to slow once they think they have learned it.  Part of that problem is metronome markings . Everyone is in a big rush to  get to the numbers the editor indicates.  (Me to  - sometimes - . Start slow and keep bringing the tempo up but not so fast as you beginning making lots of mistakes. 

Also  - the metronome can be a great aid but also a big crutch.  Try to develop your own internal rhytm clock in your head.   Use the metronome  sparingly.  Just to give you an idea of the tempo you want. Well thats my two clicks.

Cheers , Becky

[ignaceii]

OK that's interesting.
But op72 nr1. Any idea ?

I might be returning to Wohltemperierte I and II. I learned much from it, in hand and finger independence. Speed, not relevant here, musicality yes.

Thanks

[ignaceii]

It keeps troubling me though.
Take czerny op299.  nr 20 and nr 23. (universal edition 51).
nr 20 is molto vivace (3/4 mesure)  metronome 63 over the whole measure (so 1/2 + 1/4).
nr 23 is molto ALLEGRO (6/8 measure  same metronome over the same 1/2 + 1/4).
There must be serious doubts about these figures (vivace is no allegro and vice versa).
All note values in the RH are 1/16th. So very fast for either one, and no consistency.
These are all presto or prestissimo markings for me.
I heard there are serious doubts on Beethoven markings of the age, but I think this holds for a lot of studies to, or are the editions flaws.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND frankly. Or the markings go for two clicks, and so halve the measure.
Anyway, this is how I approach it.
Dangerous indications for us amateur pianists.