Advice for Pavane pour une Infante Defunte?

[krysjez]

Hi everyone,

My first post here, looking forward to being part of this community

I just started learning Ravel's Pavane pour une Infante Defunte today, some sight-reading through the first page. So far what I can tell is there are two layers of music for the right hand - an outer 'main' melody and the inner supporting staccato notes.

My problem now is with making the main melody sound clearer. Is there some kind of weight distribution thing to take note of when playing, so that the top notes ring out while the inner supporting melody stays subdued? Is it just a matter of training my pinky to be more independent of the other fingers?

Have stopped learning piano for 2 years (stopped at Gr. 8 ) and am now messing around on my own, so all help much appreciated

[jimbo320]

Hi Krysjez,
Welcome to the forum. It's hard to train any finger to do a duplet let alone the 5th finger. That's what your talking about here. Playing a note strong following by repeating it softer.
Just keep practicing. No shortcut that I know of...

Musically, Jimbo

[birba]

I think she's talking about playing a melody and an accompaniment with the same hand - here, the 4th and 5th, mainly, playing the melody, and the 2nd and 1st playing the accompaniment.  It takes a while to get the hang of it.  I learned this Pavane a few months ago.  You'll find that the pedal is what creates the legato - what holds the note while you lift your hand to perhaps play the next note of the melody with the same finger.  Play the staccato accompaniment with a sort of soft flapping motion of the thumb and 2nd finger  while using a sturdy firm 4th and 5th (and sometimes 3rd) finger for the melody.  LOVE this piece! 

[brogers70]

I love this piece, too. I used to play it on the guitar and just learned the piano version a couple of years ago. A couple of things to try for bringing out the melody in the right hand 4,5 fingers (call it the soprano line) above the right hand acommpaniment in 1,2 fingers (call this the alto line). Try playing just thesoprano line, using the fingering you'll use once you put everything together. Then try playing the alto line- play this a lot so you figure out in your mind how it sounds as a line, rather than just as random notes you have to hit while you're thinking about the melody. Then put them together. When you play them together, don't think about different weights or pressures in different fingers, just pay attention to the two voices. Practice a lot focusing on listening to the alto line without paying that much attention to the melody - this is the hard bit since your brain wants to attend to the tune. Then switch to listening to the soprano line. If you switch back and forth, listening to the soprano or alto lines, I think you'll find that you start bringing out the line you are listening to, without thinking a lot about weight and pressure on individual fingers.

[scottmcc]

birba, I agree, and I must add that this piece is far more difficult than it at first would appear.  I think that this should not be one's first foray into the works or ravel or debussy, as it is a deceptively challenging little work.

[krysjez]

I've played a little bit of Debussy (Arabesque I was my first introduction to him four years ago, then The Little Shepherd and Arabesque II for my Grade 7 and 8 exams in '08 and '09. Currently trying Golliwog's Cakewalk) but this is my first Ravel piece. Deceptively challenging indeed! First page and I'm already getting simple problems like these...

I made an image to show the area I'm having trouble with -


brogers70: That makes sense. Come to think of it, my teacher said something similar a few years back when I was still learning, but that was more for bringing out the melody when it switched to the left hand.
birba: I have barely been lifting my hands so far, just playing in one continuous line. Shall practice using my mouse with the 4th/5th fingers to train them...

[scottmcc]

pay attention to the "m. g." marks (main gauche: left hand), and use your left hand to play the bottom note of the right hand chords in those instances.  the chords are portato, not staccato.  you've done a nice job of highlighting the main melody in the score.  I agree with brogers' idea of practicing the voices separately--for me it's the only way to learn this type of piece.  I would also encourage you to focus on getting the themes you encounter on this first page down cold, as you will see them again throughout the piece in altered forms.

[krysjez]

oh! I had no clue m.g. meant main gauche. Probably should have looked it up.

I'm not too strong with the technical terms as you can see from my portato-staccato mixup.

[the.musicographer]

I am quite curious, though. In terms of the need to hold each note down, as emphasised by all my piano teachers. How do we proceed with the balance between holding the note and simply sustaining it?

[anacrusis]

I am quite curious, though. In terms of the need to hold each note down, as emphasised by all my piano teachers. How do we proceed with the balance between holding the note and simply sustaining it?

"Knowing" this comes with lots of experience and time.

A general recommendation is to hold notes if you can comfortably do so, pedal things that are obviously impossible to hold. If you can hold the note, it gives you more options with how you pedal, unlocking a potential wider array of colors.

Are there any particular bars in this piece where you are unsure whether to hold or to pedal?