Development as an improvisor ...?

[m1469]

Well, I'm doing a bit of thinking on these subjects of late.  If you are not ever thinking about theory, if you are not ever thinking of prescribed patterns or styles, or harmonies, etc., if you are only just playing what you want to hear or just letting your instincts take control of the situation, what exactly is being developed from when you ever first started improvising to what you are currently doing today?

It just seems like there's *something* that is being thought about on some level, *somewhere* along the lines.  What I am hearing is not random-sounding (even if it seems random to you!) ... I think is what I am getting at.

[furtwaengler]

Everything we do goes into our growth as an improviser, whether we are conscious of it or not. To learn of a new piece of music, or to learn more music, or about music gives us a higher vocabulary, and the twists and turns of life gives us many occasions. Improvisation to the degree of the technical ability to reproduce it, will be a reflection of what's inside on many different levels. Its going to reflect what you like, what you don't like, who you are, what you know. A lack of understanding of theory (at least an intuitive acclimation and understanding) will stifle and hinder growth, and avoiding an interest in it will be limiting - I don't see a way around that. This may not mean knowledge of all the terms and all the functions...but intimacy with keys and modes and harmonic functions, as to be able to comfortably move around in. Also, quite a bit depends on what one can do on the instrument.

(Me thinks me actually out of me league in all this stuff, but me type away anyway, and away me go!)

[pianowolfi]

This makes me think back, remember and analyze a bit.
Well I think one major factor in my development as an improviser was that I worked for years as a Eurythmy pianist in a Waldorf school. There I was often supposed to improvise within strict specifications or restrictions. For instance : 3/4 time, bass register, forte, one chord per count, clear melody. Or rhythms like anapest, iamb, trochee etc, within a given tempo. So I learned to practically apply all my knowledge from harmony. But after a while these restrictions and rules began to drive me crazy, I got bored and I was trying to break free. And that's where it really started, perhaps. This desire to break the rules and unleash my whole creativity.

[Derek]

I think in a nutshell what is being developed consciously is physical options at the keyboard. The more scales, chords, progressions, melodic fragments, rhythms, etc. that you're comfortable with generating, using, or combining, the more options your spontaneous sense will have in the moment. At the same time as developing these things consciously, development of improvisation involves a subconcious sense for where you want the music to go. You have to be willing to make a mess and make a lot of mistakes and funny sounds in order to grow. I can say that the practice of trying to "go crazy" at the keyboard  (and I don't mean totally random, I mean selecting some sounds I might already like, such as a harmonic minor scale or something) and "feeling" where I want to go comprises 95% of my own development, the remaining 5% being peeking in a music theory book before finally realizing it wasn't written by someone who makes music that I enjoy.

Do you find it easy to hum and make up a melody? Why is that---I think it is because we've probably been singing much of our lives and humming every so often, and the voice already has a ton of options of where to go, namely any pitch you want, whenever you want. To improvise is to "hum" at the piano, but you can have many more than just one voice singing at once--so the ways in which these voices, phrases, rhythms, harmonies, combine are much larger, so it takes more work to develop the options of where to go. But I think it is a similar process.

[m1469]

Do you find it easy to hum and make up a melody? Why is that---I think it is because we've probably been singing much of our lives and humming every so often, and the voice already has a ton of options of where to go, namely any pitch you want, whenever you want. To improvise is to "hum" at the piano, but you can have many more than just one voice singing at once--so the ways in which these voices, phrases, rhythms, harmonies, combine are much larger, so it takes more work to develop the options of where to go. But I think it is a similar process.

I need to read these comments and other replies in other threads again, and let them resonate a little more.  But, something that I was reminded of recently was that, when I was a child (sorry to say that yet again), I didn't used to hear melody and harmony as separate things.  Even if I would start humming a melody away from the piano, I always felt and heard harmony along with it (but, I also had learned a certain kind of pattern that probably filtered into my ability to hear melodies away from the piano).  When I would improvise or compose, they would all be together at once, and it was jolting to my system, actually, to try to think of these as separate from each other.  My point being, that I believe part of my freedom in melody even still today, can be quite tied to the correct (according to my inner perception) context of harmony to accompany it.  It allows my overall flow to continue in a way that doesn't feel the same if I can't hear/feel it all at once.  So, yes, humming melodies is quite natural for me (sometimes more than other times in my life), and I agree with your statement, and I just want to clarify perhaps only for myself, that part of my "humming" at the instrument can or does involve the whole idea, and that's what I'm especially wanting to expand.

[utterlysneaky]

This is a very interesting question with numerous answers I think.. Firstly, what constitutes development as an improviser? I think this is almost entirely an individual subject, because what is "improvement" for one might not be "improvement" for some other. I guess it sort of relates to what stage you are in in your musical understanding. A beginner would do well to look at the basic major and minor chords and the accompanying basic scales and play as much as possible and look at some technical studies, someone more advanced within their musical journey; might do well to simply listen, play, be exposed to all kinds of music, in other words strive to "live" on the edge of your comfort zone so as to expand your musical boundaries. So development is the road you are on when your improvisations start to sound different from each other every time you sit at the piano. I like to listen to music from all kinds of different eras, not only classical but also jazz and some experimental electronic music, which can give you new ideas and insights into rythm, think Aphex Twin or Amon Tobin, for instance..Twin has a nice new(well it's not so new anymore) album called Druqs, where he in many tracks simply plays his own modern piano pieces, some of them were revelations in their simplicity to me!

For myself I've noted that whenever I try to improvise something after having looked at, for example a chord book, my impro's tend to get bound and restricted by that knowledge, and I have less freedom to flow at my instrument. The greatest improvisers I've heard(and seen live) have never been big on sitting with their noses glued to theory books, mind you. They have learnt some basics yes, but after that found their own ways. Lastly I'll say that any development never comes overnight, it may take years to go from one "level" to the next, the patience of a (-insert very patient animal here-) is required.

Personally, I've come up with my best stuff when I have simply trusted my musical subconscious and taken the attitude of, "no mistakes, simply different paths".

[m1469]

Okay!  I have now more thoughtfully read all of your replies, thank you very much as it's given me something to chew on (mmmm ... me like chewy).  For some reason I feel I'm in an entirely different mindset than when I first posted this thread, and all of your replies seemed to speak right to me today, I really appreciate that!

It seems the consensus isn't too far off from having some kind of basic foundation in patterns and an intimacy with harmony and the keys and technical prowess in those areas.  Obviously the road of development is endless, I mean, I'm assuming it is endless!  And, I suppose it's different for everyone to what degree we all decide to study something like theory, or a particular style of music, or certain patterns, etc..  But, generally, it's good to have a variety of ways in which a person's development is nurtured, and this can be an individual path in terms of what may be needed and at what time.

An idea that I've been working with, which came to me during metaphysical study this past week, is that knowledge is finite, but intelligence is infinite.  I'm still chewing (mmmm ... chewing) on this idea to see what its value is, but despite the seemingly vast knowledge in the world (I started out thinking on the world level), it is actually quantifiable (hypothetically).  But, how we understand it, how we use it, the intelligence we approach it with, is perhaps unlimited.  I think this is true to some degree in piano playing and music, too.  The piano has 88 keys, that is quantifiable knowledge, but when approached with intelligence (of a conscious or subconscious form), what we can do with them is infinite.  I think that theoretical understanding is a form of knowledge, using it at the piano is intelligence, and of course the theoretical knowledge doesn't have to come first.  Perhaps you could even say that exploration is intelligence.  If anything, I want to continue exploring, and yes, Wolfi, I do see how you would get to a point of wanting to break the rules.  But, that is a sign of a solid foundation, I believe .