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Liszt Transcendental Etude No1 (Read 5328 times)

Offline danhuyle

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Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
« on: February 27, 2011, 07:58:03 AM »


Me playing Liszt Transcendental Etude No 1. Your thoughts.
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 08:45:04 AM »
You got the notes down very well, the expression needs work.

A few ideas:

After the opening run the melody is in the LH, you play it too balanced.
The contrary motion chords part needs more broadening, think longer sounds.
Don't rush through this piece you need to know when to stretch the tempo slightly to add to the grandness of this opening number of the etudes. Focus on phrasing and how to enter new phrases without rushing into them and how to extend other phrase to add to the drama.

I really like how Claudio Arrau plays these etudes.
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Offline danhuyle

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 09:04:06 AM »
I'm always struggling with rhythm and tempo in very piece I play and continue to work on it. Do you know any site that talks about rubato and how to use it?

For me, rhythm and tempo is far more important than expression. Get the rhythm and tempo and you get everything else.
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 09:43:46 AM »
This is only a suggestion, cause I know people work differently. I listened to the revolutionary etude as well, and I think it would be better for you do do some exercises like Czerny School of Velocity or Art of Finger dexterity.
What ever you think is most important for you, you Do need more expression. You don't get expression OR rhythm by playing pieces that are too difficult for you. Instead you could play easier etudes, like Czerny, or Clementi, that is about rhythm. Or else you will just keep struggling with the same things over and over, and sooner or later you will get frustrated, and it will probably get worse. I know, I've been there.

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 10:42:33 AM »
Playing stuff I don't like doesn't help aid the cause. I'm no where near as good as anyone here. In fact, I'm just another bad pianist who plays all the stuff he likes, but fails in all attempts. All because I can't control rhythm and tempo, while everyone here gets it.

How is playing Czerny or Clementi going to help? They're boring and take the same amount of time to learn. I could be a lot worse with Czerny studies because I don't like it AT ALL.

Do you really think playing stuff that 's considered easier going to solve the problem?

I must be living the pianist's nightmare.

Me become a piano teacher? What was I thinking? I can't even teach myself.
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #5 on: February 27, 2011, 11:50:28 AM »
Well, get a teacher then. Very few people can teach themselves.

Offline overfjell

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #6 on: February 27, 2011, 11:03:49 PM »
How is playing Czerny or Clementi going to help? They're boring and take the same amount of time to learn. I could be a lot worse with Czerny studies because I don't like it AT ALL.

Boring or not they help develop a technique that's essential for even considering tackling something like the Liszt etudes, don't try to run before you can walk.

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Do you really think playing stuff that 's considered easier going to solve the problem?
Yes, it will, it will give you a more natural progression and a more grounded technique.
Now learning:
Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 1 in C Major
Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 No. 5 in G Minor
Chopin Polonaise Op. 40 No. 2 in C Minor
Scriabin Prelude for the Left Hand Alone

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 04:48:16 AM »
Boring or not they help develop a technique that's essential for even considering tackling something like the Liszt etudes, don't try to run before you can walk.
Yes, it will, it will give you a more natural progression and a more grounded technique.


Really? You mean Czerny Op299 and Op740 (I have it) is the gateway to learning the entire piano repertoire. So after I learn Czerny Op299 and Op740, I can learn Ravel's Gaspard De La Nuit without breaking a sweat?

Who else who studies? Moskowski, Clementi, Heller, Czerny...
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 06:21:21 AM »
Don't overdo it. Start with Czerny. And do some easier pieces at the same time, to get some expression. And get some better recordings than Jeno Jando. Look att Naxos Historical, EMI and Deutsche Grammophon. To listen is an important part.

Offline pbryld

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 08:03:51 AM »
Wow Dan. You really sound like an idiot in this thread.
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Offline overfjell

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 08:00:26 PM »
Really? You mean Czerny Op299 and Op740 (I have it) is the gateway to learning the entire piano repertoire. So after I learn Czerny Op299 and Op740, I can learn Ravel's Gaspard De La Nuit without breaking a sweat?

Who else who studies? Moskowski, Clementi, Heller, Czerny...

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm saying it helps develop a more natural PROGRESSION. Learn Czerny, then move onto something more challenging, maybe the Mozkowski or possibly some of the Chopin Etudes. It's not the gateway to learning the entire repertoire, but it's the gateway to expanding your technique a hell of a lot. Playing the TE's without years of practice of things like Czerny, Moskowski, Chopin  and other Liszt pieces is gonna do nothing but damage your technique and possibly give you injuries.
Now learning:
Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 1 in C Major
Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 No. 5 in G Minor
Chopin Polonaise Op. 40 No. 2 in C Minor
Scriabin Prelude for the Left Hand Alone

Offline pianist1976

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 09:08:39 AM »
Hi, Danhule. I don't think this rendition is bad at all. Yes, it has things to improve but who doesn't. I think you have a nice starting point to improve. Do you have a teacher now?

Anyway, I don't think your technique is that bad, although I think you need, in my opinion, to reduce some unnecessary gestures and correct some things I think only a teacher in person can tell. I think that your renditions, while not bad, need a little more of concentration and direction. Just a few thoughts, I may be wrong.

Quote
You mean Czerny Op299 and Op740 (I have it) is the gateway to learning the entire piano repertoire. So after I learn Czerny Op299 and Op740, I can learn Ravel's Gaspard De La Nuit without breaking a sweat?

Believe me, my friend: if you play Gaspard, you will sweat anyway  ;D

Offline danhuyle

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 08:30:11 AM »
Unnecessary gestures? Have you not seen any Lang Lang? He captures everyone with it. It's learning from the best.

Is there any studies that help towards Liszt Transcendental Etudes no.12 in particular? It's just the cross rhythms from bar 38 - bar 48. then there's 5 against 6, 5 against 4...
Perfection itself is imperfection.

Currently practicing
Albeniz Triana
Scriabin Fantaisie Op28
Scriabin All Etudes Op8

Offline pbryld

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 08:34:05 AM »
But you're not like Lang Lang.
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Started playing music in the summer of 2010
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Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 08:52:51 AM »
Dude, you have to chill. Don't think you can play all these etudes yet, cause you can't.. I'm sorry, but if you want to play them well, you have to start with easier stuff (Have you even started on the pieces I recommended you to play?)

About the movements - right not it looks like you're doing them, just for doing them. It looks kind of fake, and tensed.

If you want to become a teacher, your students will have to learn from the beginning. If you haven't done that, but just skipped to the most difficult pieces there is, how will you be able to teach?

Offline pianist1976

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Re: Liszt Transcendental Etude No1
«Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 09:59:27 AM »
Unnecessary gestures? Have you not seen any Lang Lang? He captures everyone with it. It's learning from the best.

As I said I don't think you are playing bad but in my humble opinion you have still a lot to improve. But in my opinion I think you must improve your attitude first and open your mind  :).

Lang Lang can like you or not, he's not one of my favorites but it's obvious that he have a huge technique control that let him do whatever he wants. In my personal opinion Lang Lang's face gestures are unnecessary in the physical side of playing piano. Maybe they are necessary for him in order to create his image and showmanship or maybe are natural to him, I don't know and I don't think that's important. But while Lang could do one showman gesture, he is doing at the time thousands of technique movements which are necessary to play. These cannot be random, they must be learnt and internalized.

And I don't think imitating or watching pianists on TV is "learning from the best". Mimics are not good. You can learn from the best... teachers and after then been inspired by others playing but always seeking your own ways and personality after you'll get the basis.

My complain about your gestures is that they look aleatory but you are missing some basic technique points like the use of the weight of the arm (I didn't want to talk about this before because I wasn't sure, it's difficult to tell things about technique by watching a video so I may be wrong).

Quote
Is there any studies that help towards Liszt Transcendental Etudes no.12 in particular? It's just the cross rhythms from bar 38 - bar 48. then there's 5 against 6, 5 against 4...

Learn the basic technique first. Look for a good teacher. Don't build a house by the roof. Liszt's Preludio can be played even with a not so good technique but Chasse Neige is just another story. If you think that the only difficulty is form bars 38-48 then there's something wrong, you are underestimating the huge difficulties that this etude has.