methods to punish lazy students ?

[kulahola]

I have an eight year old (big talent) who came this week for the 3rd time without having practised her scale (this time F major) after getting 2 warnings!!

result: after a big scolding, I left her alone to practise the scale during the whole lesson time (1 hour).

Any other idea what I could have done ?

[Swan]

What did you tell her the consequences would be if she didn't practise?

ALWAYS let the student know, if you don't do this, then THIS will happen, and then make sure you go through with it when they don't do it.

For instance, you ask her to play F major scale at home at least five times in a row every day before she does her pieces.  That's the requirement.

But if you want to have punishment in your lessons, you must tell the student what it will be.
"If you don't practise this scale five times in a row before you play your pieces then I will make you practise is for the entire lesson,

or

I will make you write it out four octaves ascending and descending for the entire lesson."  

or

"You will have to pay me an extra two dollars every time you attempt to play it at the lessons and make a mistake, while I ping on this high C and tickle your elbows with this feather"  

Or

"I will make you walk around my neighbourhood, knock on every door and tell the person:I am a lazy piano student who doesn't practise her scales and needs to be punished.  If you have any chores for me to do, I will gladly do them for free"

or

"You will practise nothing but scales for the rest of the month,"

or

"You will stand in the corner of my studio with one hand tapping your head and the other rubbing your stomach and repeat the phrase: I am a lazy piano student who needs to stop being lazy and practise my Fmajor scale, I am a lazy piano student who needs to stop being lazy and practise my Fmajor scale, I am a lazy piano student who needs to stop being lazy and practise my Fmajor scale, I am a lazy piano student who needs to stop being lazy and practise my Fmajor scale."

Alternatively you could ask her why she hasn't practised and get to the root of the problem.

[Bob]

Find out why she's not practicing.  Does she understand the F Major scale?  Does she have anything else going on her life, like a parent divorce or family vacation?  Simply distracted by other activities?  Finds technical work boring because she doesn't find it expressive like pieces of music?  etc, etc, etc...

It's difficult to tell a student they haven't met expectations.  If you make them feel bad, they may stop lessons (so she'd never learn the F Major scale then).  It can be extremely easy to make a student feel bad about not practicing and to "guilt" them into practicing in the future.  I'm not sure that's the best way though.  Sometimes a student may feel that way even if the teacher doesn't say anything.

You could always stop the lesson and tell the student to come back next week having practiced.  But, there's so much stuff to cover in piano teaching that other things, explaining a new concept, etc., can take up the rest of the lesson if a student hasn't practiced.

It may be that the student isn't actually lazy.  She may not know what to do, too.

Not practicing may just be a sign of disinterest.  You could find someway to remind her of what interests her about music -- a favorite piece maybe?  Or, find a new piece that interests her.  You could tell her you picked just for her, in F Major, and if she had that F Major scale then she'd learn the piece faster and have a lot more fun learning it.

I noticed you said you left the student alone to practice for that hour.  You might want to help her practice.  She may not know how.  And, I'm sure you could tell her new ways to practice scales that she doesn't currently use.


You could also try giving her parents a phone call to see if they know anything about their child not practicing.


If she isn't the type of student you want to teach -- one that needs a lot of thought on your part, motivation, constant novelty -- you may want to just ask her to return for lessons when she's ready to practice and prepare for lessons the way you expect.  In other words, let her go.  Or, maybe recommend another teacher for her that's suited to that type of student.

[benji]

result: after a big scolding, I left her alone to practise the scale during the whole lesson time (1 hour).

Punishing a student like that, especially a younger student, could end up badly. If I were eight years old, and I went to a lesson like that, I would reconsider wanting to learn from that teacher. You could be scaring away your livelihood.

Swan had a good idea: up the charge(but not too much)! If the student's parents must pay more, they will make sure their child practices what you want them to.

[kulahola]

Punishing a student like that, especially a younger student, could end up badly. If I were eight years old, and I went to a lesson like that, I would reconsider wanting to learn from that teacher. You could be scaring away your livelihood.

Swan had a good idea: up the charge(but not too much)! If the student's parents must pay more, they will make sure their child practices what you want them to.

yes she perfectly knows how to play scales, she knows how to practise (i could hear how she proceeds during this lesson) and she practises the pieces she likes a lot and learns very fast and knew what would happen to her in case of disobedience.

[willcowskitz]

Any other idea what I could have done ?

https://www.fsu.edu/~crimdo/poland/torture03.jpg

[kulahola]

https://www.fsu.edu/~crimdo/poland/torture03.jpg

My post is a serious post. I am not torturing my students, just trying to help them do what I ask them to do in order for them to make some progress.

[Hmoll]

The only thing I would add is to make sure the parents are involved, if you have not done so already.  They need to know there is a consistent problem developing, and they need to know what the consequences are. Those consequences - I think that's a better word than punishment - should touch the parents as well as the student. If the ultimate consequence is the student having her lessons terminated with you, most parents would be morified, because that would represent a tangible failure in their eyes.

[kulahola]

The only thing I would add is to make sure the parents are involved, if you have not done so already.  They need to know there is a consistent problem developing, and they need to know what the consequences are. Those consequences - I think that's a better word than punishment - should touch the parents as well as the student. If the ultimate consequence is the student having her lessons terminated with you, most parents would be morified, because that would represent a tangible failure in their eyes.

Of course the mother knows. She was there during half of the "lesson" and I was sitting in the same room as her.

[Swan]

So Kulahola, what did this little 8 year old lazy Fmajor hating student tell you when you asked her WHY she hasn't been practising?  What was her answer?  Even if you're not curious, I am, so if she hasn't practised this week, ask her "Another piano teacher wants to know why you haven't practised your Fmajor scale?"


And whatever will you do THIS week, if she hasn't practised?

[kulahola]

So Kulahola, what did this little 8 year old lazy Fmajor hating student tell you when you asked her WHY she hasn't been practising?  What was her answer?  Even if you're not curious, I am, so if she hasn't practised this week, ask her "Another piano teacher wants to know why you haven't practised your Fmajor scale?"


And whatever will you do THIS week, if she hasn't practised?

Her answer was that "she was busy practising the study i gave her". I told her that no matter how busy she is with other pieces, I always check the scale first. This week no lesson, I am busy myself with lessons. My teacher from Moscow is visiting me and she asks me to practise "8 hours a day, no less". Yesterday at 11 pm she forced me to practise!!!!

Imagine if I was half that way tyrannical with my own students....... you would kick me out of the forum.

Next week I am abroad => no teaching either... So she will have had 3 weeks to practise the new scale (a minor, first minor scale she plays so I will be a little more tolerant...   funny that she could play perfectly all major scales except that last one for some reason....)

[Shagdac]

Kula,

I personally feel that instead of looking for "methods to punish", it might behoove you to look for "methods to teach to practice". I only say this because there may be a possibility that she has difficulty understanding HOW to practice. You stated that you made her practice for the whole lesson, and you knew she knew how, as she was doing it correctly! That's great. So lets assume that she knows how, but isn't able (for whatever reason) to do this on her own at this point without supervision.

Why not have her come to you everyday for a shorter period of time, say 20-30 minutes, while you "supervise" her practicing? If she obviously is not doing it on her own, and you require this of her, seems a logical choice to me. When she (and her Mother) experience the progress she makes by doing this, she will probably be inspired to eventually do this on her own at home.

I realize you are very busy with your own lessons, and I'm sure have other committments. This of course is why you would have to charge an additional fee. However it will be worth it, as she will be getting your 1 on 1 attention daily, and when they see the progress, I'm sure the Mother will agree it's worth it. Also, if the parents are paying a large amount of $$$ for this daily service and your valuable time, I'm sure they will more than stress the importance of practicing to the student. People tend to value what they pay for!

Since she is not practicing on her own, I would make this a contingency upon continuing to instruct her. Either they agree, or they don't. Wasting time worrying about "how" to come up with punishments for something that is voluntary anyway is a waste of time.

I know of a very wise teacher who once used these methods, and still does I'm sure....who claims much success! Good luck and I hope this helps!

Good luck with your lessons too!
S

[Swan]

Swan had a good idea:

:-/

Oh dear, don't take my suggestions too seriously; my tongue was very firmly in my cheek when I posted.  I was having one of my 'let's be evil' moments.  

[Swan]

Here's a serious response.  

Help your student schedule their time by writing in their homework book a practise formulae.  Here's what I do:

1. Warm up.  (they have various exercises assigned)
2. Technical work: scales and arpeggios.
3. Current Piece:  this means the very latest piece they are working on getting together.
4. Polish:  a piece that is now HT, but not at performance standard.  
5. Review: A piece that has been performed (at a recital etc) or one that is played well.

I refer back to this formulae every single lesson until I know that it is being followed (i.e it has become a part of their routine).

Sometimes I add boxes next to the five points, so they can tick these off after completion.

What do I do if they come back and haven't followed the formulae?  Lots of different things, but at the beginning of all of them, is ask WHY?  Sometimes I need to get the parents involved.  Usually I find though it's ME that hasn't been specific enough.  I haven't said: "Play this scale at least five times beginning of your daily practise at this tempo with this touch and then changing to ....etc etc and be prepared to play it for me three times in a row without mistakes.  I am going to hear this at the beginning of next lesson."

When I'm as detailed and specific as possible, I find I don't have any problems with the students doing it.  Depending on age and level of experience, I'll tell the parents what is expected and ask them to remind their child to do this on this day for this long etc.

'Consequences' vary with each student.  

I don't think kids are generally bad, disobedient, lazy no hopers that need to be punished.  Encouragement and guidelines work better for me.

In this case Kulahola, your student's answer seems to imply that she thought her piece was more important to study than the F major scale.  It sounds as though she wasn't being lazy, or disobedient,  but she misunderstood her priorites for the week.

[Swan]

she  knew what would happen to her in case of disobedience.

If she knew the week before, that she would have to use her entire lesson to practise the F major scale if she didn't practise at home, perhaps she reasoned that that was actually a good idea, and she'd just concentrate on her study instead.

You will only know if your 'punishment' worked when she returns in three weeks.   By the way, I have used a similar strategy with a young boy who just thought he could 'fluke it' through lessons.  He was ( is, he's still having lessons) a very bright boy and could play well enough to get buy without a lot of practise at home.  Afer a few 'talks' he's now doing really well.   Perhaps your 8 year old has learned her lesson too.

I told her that no matter how busy she is with other pieces, I always check the scale first.

You may have even told her this many times before, but did she really understand?  Her actions tell you she didn't.  Just because we make ourselves perfectly clear doesn't mean it was to them.  Or perhaps she forgot.  So I ask some students to repeat everything they have to do that week to me, and then when their parents come, they have to tell their parent what they have to do in front of me, and show the parent where I have written it in their homework book.  If they forget, hopefully the parent will remember.

Another thing you've mentioned Kulahola is that it will be three weeks before her next lesson.  If this happens on a regular basis, then it's hard for anyone to remember everything they have to do, especially an 8 year old that no doubt has other interests and activities beside the piano.

8 hours a day, no less". Yesterday at 11 pm she forced me to practise!!!!

Imagine if I was half that way tyrannical with my own students.......

Firstly, you're an adult who has sought out instruction from a particular person.  Assumably this is because of your own desire.

she forced me

No one can physically force you to play the piano.  She no doubt strongly suggested you take a course of action, and by you not standing up and walking out the door, you consented.   As an adult, you have this freedom of choice, and you're well aware that you have this freedom of choice.  An 8 year old doesn't.  

Don't compare an 8 year old with a well disciplined, determined adult such as yourself.

If your 8 year old AGAIN has not practised what you have assigned, start thinking in terms of PREVENTION rather than cure.  What can you do to HELP her do all that you have assigned, not PUNISH her when she hasn't.

And as Shagdac stated, just like you are capable of telling your piano instructor that you are NOT going to play at 11pm, this little 8 year old girl can choose too.  Usually, an 8 year old's decision is reflected in their actions, not their words.  (And this is for a lot of reasons that most other people reading this will get without me having to explain.)

[Hmoll]

Swan has very good advice.

It sounds like there is a huge disconnect in communication if you - the teacher - the parents, and the student are in the same room while the problem with unprepared scales is being adressed, and there is no resolved solution.

As far as your teacher having to force you to practice, well on so many levels, there is something wrong there.

[DrEvil-]

You monster!!!!!!!!!!  


[Slowly presses back button...]

[dlu]

How about make the student listen and play some Schoenberg (who, I actually really like, but most don't) for the entire lesson or threaten her with having to listen to Beethoen's Grosse Fugue.

[Medtner]

This method I picked up from foreign language teaching: all of my students are required to have tape recorders, regardless of language or music lessons. Every class, whatever I assign, they have to tape, and depending on how well they do in class decides how much taping they get. Normally the normal amt of taping is just to practice what they're supposed to, but I sometimes give more.

I teach a lot of my students how to practice and eliminate a lot of unnecessary time at the piano because so many have so little time with their other studies. So in the practice sessions, they are supposed to follow a specific regimen for learning a piece of music that I assign in class, and each section of that practice session has to be taped, so that I can also check to make sure they are practicing correctly.

They get the tapes back the following class and they give me a new tape and by that time I can make any readjustments by knowing what they're doing at home.

Regarding punishment, if say my student came back and didn't practice the F Major scale the number of times I told her to (let alone tape it), I double the amount of taping for next lesson, but this also depends on what we're working on. As they learn scales I have them play Hanon exercises transcribed in them, so I might assign them more than usual exercises to be played in that key for their extra taping assignment.

The advantage to taping is that not only does it act as an impetus to do their practice sessions correctly the way I want them to do, it forces them into good habits (regardless of what they're doing when they're not taping) and they know that if they don't tape it the way I want it, I'll know about it the following week.

Actually, the taping takes up so little (they only occasionally fill a 2-hour cassette) of their time, it's proof that to accomplish what needs to be done in any given week, not much time is required away from their other studies.

Most of the time the parents are present in my classes. And I encourage this. It's already not difficult to get them to do their practicing through taping, but with the parents, there's usually no doubt that their practice will be completed.

Kolya

[donjuan]

result: after a big scolding, I left her alone to practise the scale during the whole lesson time (1 hour).

ohhh the pain... it reminds me of the time my teacher got angry at me and left me alone to practice a piece because I wasnt making music, but was rather playing the piano.

Afterwards, I was angry because these lessons are expensive and I couldnt believe this teacher would, what I thought, waste so much of my money.

Within a few hours after the lesson, I began to feel as though my teacher was doing what was necessary to force me to improve and recognize that I am not taking it seriously enough.

thank you teacher.

[paris]

hi i'm a student not teacher as you, but i think i have a solution to your problem. when i was younger i was very lazy. i didn't practise scales at all !  
that's why i today have big problems with my tehnique. i think you shouldn't 'punish' your student, just try to explain to him how big is importance of practising scales. and if is he so lazy that he doesn't practise a pieces you gave him, try to put him on a concert, in my music school we call it 'public hour', and the audience are parents and some teachers. it will maybe make him practise.

my teacher put me on concert, and, of course, i didn't play good, because i didn't practise, but i have been so embarassed and sad of my poor performance, that i sterted practise more. today, i like practise and i'm not lazy anymore.
(ohhhh, i am...when i have to study math...   )

[reinvent]

I really feel sick when I read that for some - the main way they attempt to motivate is by punishing.
 Why do you play the piano anyway?  Because you're afraid someone is going to shoot you?
  Anyone on this forum who plays the piano because they love it?  Anyone learn to love it by being degraded?
  Anyone that would charge an hour and leave a student alone should return the money.   You have no right to do that.  I'm sorry but I think you should lock yourself up in a room and practice teaching for an hour.

 

[Swan]

I think you should lock yourself up in a room and practice teaching for an hour.

 

T'would do little good!  

Kulahola is teaching the way she was taught.  Being locked in a room by yourself will do nothing but re-confirm that what you are doing is good.  

She has expressed no desire to change her methods - successful or not!

I'm not convinced that Kulahola is as mean as she comes across.  Don't forget, the parent was in the room with her when she left this student 'by herself'.  If the parent was as outraged as some of us would be, surely the parent would refuse to allow her child anywhere near Kulahola again.

Kulahola seems to like attention. (Just my observation).  She posts to get a reaction.  (I read her confession to being JSBach before she deleted it.) That's why I don't take her too seriously (hence my first posts).  

What I do like about Kulahola though, is that she does raise issues which are important.  She has been the initiator (or catalyst) of some very interesting threads.  
She gives us a chance to jump up and down about things, and that's pretty 'fun' (in a strange way I don't know I want to go into....)

Kulahola, keep posting where ever you are!

[ChristmasCarol]

Am thinking piano lesson and punish are words that should never ever ever be in the same sentence.  George Leonard's book "Education and Ecstasy" has a quote I love "Only those things I learned in ecstasy do I remember".   Tension, fear, shame and anger are real show stoppers.  If I were that mother, I'd march right out of that place never to return again.

[donjuan]

Am thinking piano lesson and punish are words that should never ever ever be in the same sentence.  George Leonard's book "Education and Ecstasy" has a quote I love "Only those things I learned in ecstasy do I remember".   Tension, fear, shame and anger are real show stoppers.  If I were that mother, I'd march right out of that place never to return again.

I disagree.  I think a good teacher will do everything they can to force the student to succeed.  I wouldnt respect my teacher as much if we didnt have the occasional spat.  It really helps in the long run.  
wait.... oh are you one of those parents who have kids that play on a soccer team, and after the game, everyone (including the losers) get their own chintzy plastic trophy?  None of those kids turn into David Beckham.
donjuan

[Spatula]

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT

haha jk jk

Scolding them and saying if they wanna crap on the exam then say "You know, little jonny who had his lesson last week, I told him that that was going to be the last lesson..."

It worked for me.

[rhapsody in orange]

Hmm. how about getting a piece which she likes with long scale-like passages? Inspire her, and maybe she'll like the piece. Then convince her that the technique is required for the piece, and that she can only play it well once she's mastered her scales?
But even so maybe 8-yr-olds would not understand the importance of scales, no matter how much it's emphasized. (I hated scales when i was really young too). How about varying the ways to play the scales? Experiment with articulation/dynamics etc. Make scale practising a more interesting thing to do =)

[musiczone]

kulahola,not every piano teacher works well with all students. My personality works well with some students and not with others.Most of the parents of my students are looking for more of a "fun" approach to learning.Not all of my students even get scales until I feel that they are ready to commit to them.If parents are aware of your approach to teaching then they shoud help support your philosophy and encourage their child to practice scales as directed during the week.I do not agree with any type of punishment.You might win the battle but not the war,perhaps. Jay

[BoliverAllmon]

if all else fails. drop them.

[timothy42b]

Methods to punish lazy students is a strange concept.  It is very much like mthods to make mistakes practicing.

Advice is commonly given in this forum to avoid making mistakes.  See Bernhard, Chang, PracticeSpot, etc.  Don't practice mistakes.  Find ways to practice perfectly. 

Punishment and mistakes are the same thing.  Both to be avoided, for the same reasons.  Using punishment always reflects failure on the part of both student and teacher.  (and no system is perfect, and sometimes we even chang and Bernhard's students probably make mistakes;  for sure I do! <grin>  but no mistakes and no punishment should be the goal.) 

[mound]

every mistake is an opportunity to learn a lesson..

I vaguely remember a teacher I had when I was like 5 or 6 years old who seemed to have a nasty attitude.. but I don't recall any kind of corporal punishment.. or maybe I've blocked that out - something caused me to give up piano for the next 20 years! Perhaps it was my attitude.. nah, it was my attitude.

As far as I'm concerned, a student must find motivation from within to excel. Parents and teachers can beg, plead, steal, punish, beat, spank, slap, threaten loss of desert or an hour of repeating the same thing, whatever, and it's going to be of no use, because until the child has discovered on their own the drive inside of them, all the coercing in the world isn't going to do a darn thing but prevent them from even looking.

-Paul

[Daniel_piano]

result: after a big scolding, I left her alone to practise the scale during the whole lesson time (1 hour).

Any other idea what I could have done ?

Punishing is a really stupid thing
It just teach a child that he must do something because otherwise he will be punished instead of teaching to do something beause of passion, love or out of resposabilities
By punishing you never teach justice, you can't teach a 11 years old kid not to smoke by punishing him if you find out that he has smoked, you can just teach him the right thing to do explaining the health risks linked with smoking and explaining him that it's because you love him that you don't want him to ruin his health

Of course, you can threat a kid telling him that if he doesn't study his scales you would punish him, but in this way he would just practice out of fear not because of love, passione or really understanding... and if I were you I would prefer not to have any students at all instead of having a lot of students that keep taking lessons from me just out of fear

Why don't you try the reverse process instead?
Instead of punish her if she doesn't study her scales, why don't you "reweard" her when she study her scale well?
It's clear that she needs some motivation and your attitude and your lessons are not giving her any
The strongest motivation of all would be to feel how fantastic and pleasant is to play well making your teacher proud of you

Surely any kind of punishing that involve piano playing is just absurd !!
Do you want them to think that playing piano is something wonderful and useful or just a way to punish someone?
It's just like math
You can't punish a student that didn't study his math by making him study more math
He rightly, will think that it true that math is useless if it is used as a way of punish instead of being used for its real purposes

If she really loves piano, then a more intelligent punishment, instead of involving piano playing, would be "not involving piano playing"
Yes, if she doesn't study you can tell her that you don't want her at your next lesson unless she doesn't know her scale perfectly
Then she would understand how much she love piano and how important are your lessons for her and will be compelled to really study for a real strong motivation

If even after that she doesn't study her scale it simply means that she doesn't give a damn about your lessons
Mind you, not the piano, you and your lesson!!

Daniel

[BoliverAllmon]

I read that a certain Russian family punished there kid. They wouldn't allow him to eat anything until he had played the piano for 3 hours. Tough and i don't think the kid turned out too bright either.

boliver

[Bob]

There are teachers too that are good at making you feel guilty or showing you someone else who's doing slightly better than you, so you end of thinking, "Dang!  I could be playing like that if I was working just a little harder."

Kind of mental punishments.

[johnnypiano]

Only a few of the contributers show any understanding of teaching and communicating with others.  Why is punishment being given to a very promising student because she has failed to practise the scale of F three weeks running?  She seems to have an instinctive suspicion of scales and all the teacher is doing is cultivating hostility.  Anyway, what's so special about the scale of F?  If teachers really put themselves out, the salient facts of the scale could be demonstrated in two minutes and practised slowly in five.  Be pleased you have a talented student - for as long as she can put up with you.

Give the girl a break and start thinking practically.  Did your own teacher put you through nightmares of threats?  If so, now is the time to break out and teach properly.
 

[Spatula]

I read that a certain Russian family punished there kid. They wouldn't allow him to eat anything until he had played the piano for 3 hours. Tough and i don't think the kid turned out too bright either.

boliver

Sounds just as bad as the russian school seige.

[lostinidlewonder]

Why punish the student that does nothing just as hitting a dog with a stick does nothing. Mental punishment is just as bad as picking up a metre ruler and smacking them out.

If she is a long term student and she is totally not budging then crack a deal with her. Say. today i would like to hear the first three notes of the scale. So let her play that and then stop. THen ask her, next week i want the first four no excuses, if you havent added one more not to that don't come to the lesson and ill take half the tuition fee for wasting my time.

I think it is fair, if a student cannot make 1 note a week progress there is just no point in even wasting your time.

[Sydney]

To study musical instrument is to learn self-descipline.  Through learning to play the piano, kids would grow up mentally.

If the kids are talented, they will practice scales with fun. If not and they hate learning scales, just let them learn scales in various works. If the kids don't have any interest in any works, let them leave. There are other things that will let them learn self-discipline and it doesn't have to be piano.

Piano teachers are quite different from school teachers. They are not obliged to keep all students equally.

[ujos3]

I know an "absurd"  method that may work well when anything else does not work.
 
This is to "forbid her" to practise the F scale!!!!!!

I mean, you tell her " You should practise sight reading the F scale,  just 2 minutes a day. I f you practise ,say, one day 2 minutes and 1 second the F scale, you lose the game. Never practise more than 2 minutes the F scale !!! (you can tell that also to her mother).

This is a trick for procastinating students (i use it also for myself ). There is a task you do not want to do, but you must do. So you say: Ok, I will just spend 2 minutes in this task. No more.

90% of the attempts to begin the task you can't stop at 2 minutes, because the brain is involved in an activity that is very frustrating to stop.

For the girl we are talking about, you just need to excite her curiosity, not just her capacity to obey. You can also tell her it is a sort of experiment, and invent a tale about some student you had time ago, or you can tell her that if she plays the game for two weeks you stop asking her to play this scale, etc.

You can also say that this is a negotiation and with this agreement each one is keeping his/her positions.

The only drawback in this case is that you have already begun some sort of fight between teacher and pupil, so she won't play the game. It may be too late to try that, and the best advice would be to change to another thing, so she will have won the fight against you and she will recompensate you studying better the pieces she likes.

In anycase my advice is to let the music (in general) grow inside her until she acceeds to improve technique because she is understanding the reason for that, may be in a concrete piece. But she must arrive to this conclusion mostly by herself.


Javier
 

[julie391]

I have an eight year old (big talent) who came this week for the 3rd time without having practised her scale (this time F major) after getting 2 warnings!!

result: after a big scolding, I left her alone to practise the scale during the whole lesson time (1 hour).

Any other idea what I could have done ?

   disgusting

i have never been forced, or even told to practice in my life

in fact i have been discouraged from practicing, but nothing will deter me - noone will get in the way of my passion.

i abhor your method, just disgusting

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I agree. What a ridiculous idea.


Ludwig Van Rachabji

[johnnypiano]

What is being done to this child in the name of MUSIC is child abuse.  It is the teacher who needs punishing.   Does the teacher even like music herself?  Or is she just a control freak of little children?  What happened in the teacher's musical past that caused such a reaction?  What advice do we have for punishing her severely?  Bring in the doctors or the police?   

[Sketchee]

Now it's gone a little too far.  I think the teacher had good intentions.  Just didn't know how to handle the situation.  That's why she came to us, not to be scolded.  Her message sounded like she wanted to encourage the student to practice.

It seems a bit ironic to me that people would scold and verbally punish her while saying this same kind of punishment doesn't encourage people to do any better.

[julie391]

yep, this is illegal - and she should be dealt with

[johnnypiano]

The contributor wants us to agree with the idea of punishment - hence the title “Methods to punish lazy students?”   

You need no advice from us; you’re doing fine with your ‘big scolding’,  your warnings, (first, last and final?), shutting the child up for an hour….  Is this the Russian method?   And the child is retaliating by kicking out at the innocent and very simple scale of F.

Tactical solution (1):- obviously, she can play CDE (right hand) with fingers 1 2 3, and F G A and B flat with fingers 1 2 3 and 4.  There must be a piece, that she likes, that has these fragments somewhere in it.  Then you can both have fun helping each other to put them together.  And don’t ever mention the scale of F to her again . (2) have her play the scale of C in the Right hand and, as she approaches B, she moves the hand forward and 'climbs' onto the B flat.  There you are; F major scale without tears and fears.  If you try and fight little children you will never win.  Work with them and with what they can understand.
My own illustrious teacher's motto was: "A smile is better than a frown."  Good
luck.