Japan Earthquake

[ongaku_oniko]

Two great Earthquakes in a row, a 7.2 on march 9th, and a 8.9 (sources vary from 8.4-8.9) on friday marth 11th...



Any Japanese people here? Or have friends and family in Japan?

Not piano related at all, but thought it deserves a topic...

[thalbergmad]

I cannot believe the film shown on the news here in England. It just looks like something from a high budget disaster movie, but regretfully it is not.

I hope our Country does something to help.

Thal

[birba]

I have lots of friends in Tokyo and Nagasaki.  But they are out of the danger area.  I tried to call but the lines are down.  It's frightening.  You can build antisismic buildings, but you can't stop a tsunami.

[pianowolfi]

It's like a nightmare, I woke up in the morning and saw these news and I thought no that can't be true, please, not again...

[ongaku_oniko]

That's good. At least they're not in danger.

Birba, I read that you've lived in Japan before. Do you speak Japanese?

pianowolfi:

Again? What do you mean again?

[pianowolfi]

Haiti, Christchurch, the Tsunami 2004, Chile...

[ongaku_oniko]

i see. i thought it was something like that. But I wanted to make sure, since frankly i don't find these to be related at all.


when i first saw this news i must've googled 100 times to make sure it wasn't a fake and is really talking about march 11th 2011 and not a few hundred years back.

[pianowolfi]

And I distinctly remember Kobe, 1995

[Bob]

I thought giant whirlpools were fiction.  I thought there were only little ones in real life.

https://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/vo.whirlpool.earthquake.nhk?hpt=C2

[emill]

A lot of us here in Manila are on the edge.....  about a week before the Japan earthquake the Philippine Volcanology and Seismic authorities warned the public to expect the big one soon.
For the last few centuries we have been hit by a big earthquake every 20 years or so and the last one was a 7.6 in 1991 lasting for over a minute with buildings swaying and streets rolling up and down .. the scare of your life with feelings of complete helplessness ....  exactly the way they had it in Tokyo.  Yet surprisingly Manila survived without a casualty with only minor damage to infrastructure.  Hundreds were killed though from collapsed buildings in the mountain city resort of Baguio which was nearer the epicenter ... if i remember correctly it was 8.1 there. 

I can just can imagine the frayed nerves and the psychological trauma many japanese will be suffering the next several months to a few years ....  as we have suffered here. Consider yourself lucky if you are not a resident of the countries of the "Ring of Fire" in the Pacific.  One encounter with a 7+ on the Richter scale quake will scar one's nerves for life.  We can just hope and pray.

[lostprophet]

So 7 is so bad that you'd be scared? 8.9 is nearly 100 times that intensity... that's almost the difference between getting punched in the face and getting hit by a bus.

We've only ever had a 3 here, and I went outside and expected world war III to ensue when it happened. I heard yesterday that only 1 person died, that's kind of amazing, but I doubt that's the right figure.

[ongaku_oniko]

nearly 100? If I'm not completely ignorant, which I am, the magnitude scale is based on logrithms

Which means a 8.9 is nearly 1000 times of a 7, not 100.


But my mom survived the Tang Shan Da Di Zhen back in the 70s in China, which was a 7+, and over 700,000 people died. She's not scared or scarred.

[Bob]

On a lighter note...

The threat of a nuclear disaster....  A nuclear cherry in a frothy whipped cream tidal wive.

At one point in time, someone would have said, "Hey, let's put a nuclear plant in this town.  It sounds like a good idea."

https://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110312/ts_nm/us_japan_quake


The town's name caught my attention, followed by the time.  It looks like all this still has yet to happen.  A future time written about in past tense.

[birba]

The death toll is over a thousand.  Most of them hit by the tsunami.
Ongaku:  ciotto nihongo-o hanasemas.  Anata wa, nihonjin desu ka, chuukokujin desu ka?

[ongaku_oniko]

I am Chinese. Somewhat learning Japanese by myself.

I distinctly remember kobe too, not at the time of the Earthquake though, but long after in a show called ryori no tetsujin (Iron Chef). Any watch it?

[birba]

Was that the one where they would have a contest between 2 cooks? 

[ongaku_oniko]

yeah, they have three (and then they added one later to four) "Iron chefs"

Iron Chef Japanese - Rokusaburo Michiba (then Komei Nakamura, then Masaharu Morimoto)
Iron Chef Chinese - Chen Kenichi
Iron Chef French - Yutaka Ishinabe (then Hiroyuki Sakai)
Iron Chef Italian - Masahiko Kobe

And every episode they get a challenger from a famous restaurant to compete with one of the four iron chefs. It's an awesome show, and they spent a lot of money to produce it

(in the swallow's nest episode just the swallow's nests alone costed over 40,000 USD)

[pianowolfi]

I hope deeply that at least and at last now some people understand that nuclear power isn't really a long term solution.

[oxy60]

I hope deeply that at least and at last now some people understand that nuclear power isn't really a long term solution.

Only if you don't back up the back up. Redundancy is the key.

On a personal level take a look around your surroundings and tie things down. Did you notice the film of the office when the earthquake struck where there were monitors just sitting on shelving waiting to fall at the slightest rumble. I live in an earthquake zone on the ring of fire. Today I am doing what I should have done a long time ago, securing shelving and tying down the TV.

You can't really prepare for the "big one." You can keep the little ones from causing such a mess!

[pianowolfi]

Safe use of nuclear power would require a back up of the backup of the backup....ad infinitum. Which isn't possible. So it's better to not use it at all.

[ongaku_oniko]

While what you're saying is true, the fact is, nothing else is safe to that extent. You know buildings are not even that sturdy.

What I mean is, they have a good chance of collapsing even without an earthquake. Good, meaning more than if you had a backup with a back up with a backup... x times. I don't know what this x is, and it's probably different for different types of buildings, but this x is significantly less than infinity.


What I'm trying to say is, there's a risk to everything, and if you can't accept even such a small risk, there really isn't anything you can do.


There are many more things people do that are much less sustainable. Excessive use of natural gas, for example.

[pianowolfi]

Yes ongaku, I agree but nuclear power is too much of a high risk for whole mankind and for the whole life on earth. It's use is definitely irresponsible and not justifiable. Did you ever hear of Tchernobyl? And how it still affects a huge area of White Russia, Russia and the whole North-eastern European countries? How many people still nowadays get sick because of it? Even we in middle Europe can only eat a tiny bit of certain wild mushrooms because the radioactivity they absorb from the soil is too high! And it will be like this for our whole lifetime and much longer! Did you ever think of how long it takes until all the radioactivity will be gone? Thousands and hundreds of thousands of years?

[Bob]

"Partial nuclear meltdown." 

"Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters that a partial meltdown in Unit 3 of the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant is 'highly possible.'"

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake


That sounds like a made for tv movie.  I thought they made them so they couldn't meltdown?  At least that's what I heard for U.S. nuclear plants, that they weren't made like Chernobyl.

[emill]

So 7 is so bad that you'd be scared? 8.9 is nearly 100 times that intensity... that's almost the difference between getting punched in the face and getting hit by a bus.
We've only ever had a 3 here, and I went outside and expected world war III to ensue when it happened. I heard yesterday that only 1 person died, that's kind of amazing, but I doubt that's the right figure.

..YES earthquakes are so scary, but like anything else... the more you get used to them, the less scary they become .... however once you have the big ones... you can never be as ready.

btw ... I was referring to the swaying buildings and the rolling of streets in Tokyo which had about 7.6-7.8 on the Richter scale (the epicenter, was 8.9)... the same more or less what we had in Manila in 1991. The tremors though lasted over 2 minutes while here it was just about a minute and a half ....  but it was just as scary.  What you see in YT ... all the shaking, the swaying and the rolling of streets occurred. 

[Bob]

10,000 and a potential nuclear disaster.

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

[Bob]

Check out the guy walking through the park with the ground moving and the one with the skyscrapers swaying.

https://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110311/ts_yblog_theenvoy/watch-raw-footage-of-the-japan-earthquake-and-tsunami

[starlady]

Respected Pianowolfi:
              The whole world has been arguing about nuclear power for decades and nothing is settled, so it will probably not be settled on this forum either.  But do consider that in spite of the frightening things happening in Japan now, nuclear power plants the very big advantage that they don't contribute to global warming the way the fossil fuels do.   Is that important enough to make up for the radioactivity risks?  I wish I knew. ---s.

[ongaku_oniko]

According to at least 10 biologists/chemists at masters level or higher, specializing in ecology that I know, (what they study I can't remember the name exactly, since I'm completely ignorant in this area, so I call 'em biologists/chemists lol)

And most of them don't know each other,

They ALL say that global warming is not actually much of a threat. It's undesirable, but nowhere near the scale depicted in the media. Politicians are just using this to divert people's attention from real problems.

[thalbergmad]

Respected Pianowolfi:
              The whole world has been arguing about nuclear power for decades and nothing is settled, so it will probably not be settled on this forum either.  But do consider that in spite of the frightening things happening in Japan now, nuclear power plants the very big advantage that they don't contribute to global warming the way the fossil fuels do.   Is that important enough to make up for the radioactivity risks?  I wish I knew. ---s.

Pianowolfi would not know about such things as he lives in Switzerland.

They are still using cowcrap.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

Rofl  

@starlady: I don't think that makes up for the radioactivity risks. It's way easier to invest consequently in alternative energies than dealing with the consequences of a nuclear worst case scenario.
  

[thalbergmad]

Would it not be wonderful if we could harness the incredible power unleashed by an earthquake.

Then, just one small bit of good could come from a disaster.

Thal

[ongaku_oniko]

Wait until we get to Type I civilization

(if you don't know what it is, watch Dr. Michio Kaku's videos on youtube)

[pianowolfi]

Would it not be wonderful if we could harness the incredible power unleashed by an earthquake.

Then, just one small bit of good could come from a disaster.

Thal

Indeed yes.

[Bob]

I was thinking that.  If they could put out some turbines or generators to get something back from a tidal wave.


Doesn't look good.
https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake_nuclear_crisis

[argerichfan]

Would it not be wonderful if we could harness the incredible power unleashed by an earthquake.

Or a tsunami as Bob said above...

[ahinton]

Indeed yes.

Whilst it's a tad off topic, it would be even better were it possible to harness the power of lightning strikes; it would then be possible to power homes and other buildings for some time on the strength of each such strike.

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

I wonder why they didn't have the backup generator system better prepared.  I heard the fuel tanks for the backup generator floated away.  I wonder why they didn't call out for someone to air-ship in more fuel.

[oxy60]

Please keep in mind that Japan is not a third world country. Also remember that as with all disaster events the news reports are always hyped up. Getting the real story on exactly what is going on is very difficult.

This is as good a place and time to bring up the inherent dangers in living in interdependent  societies. Right now think about how many people you depend on to do their jobs correctly so that you can survive the day.

All those people need to be structured, trained and supervised. Their work needs to be inspected and mistakes corrected.

When you think through this you see how easily mistakes can occur. If one of those mistakes happens to be an inferior bolt holding a mission critical part, the result could be disastrous.

[pianisten1989]

And everyone has seem to forget the Libyan people getting killed for wanting democracy. And the whole world just sits there and counting their money, and have meetings.

[Bob]

Egypt... Libya... When was New Zealand?... Then Japan.... It's heading east....   My God... It's already here... Charlie Sheen....  And the forum.... It's madness.  Madness I tell you... Spreading...  (Aren't the PS servers in Texas?)

[oxy60]

And everyone has seem to forget the Libyan people getting killed for wanting democracy. And the whole world just sits there and counting their money, and have meetings.

Better read up on the Spanish Civil War. Then you'll know what will happen next. Each of the middle East uprisings are following the same script. BTW the US didn't do anything then.

Remember, if you don't have a dog in the fight, stay out of it! (Bill Clinton)

[Bob]

I thought that was part of the point of the whole Gulf War situations -- Inject some democracy and then the others will follow along. 


Slightly on topic... If this is what Japan does for a nuclear accident... Man, you can include Russian too.  I hope the U.S. isn't next for this stuff.  But if these countries -- Japan and the Soviet Union -- are botching up their own nuclear power... What would Iran do?  Assuming Iran actually builds their nuclear plants just for power. 

[oxy60]

Indeed! Just found out that our oldest (from 1976) is near NYC.

There is more to all this. If Japan must shut down a lot of reactors, then what will the factories do? They all run on that cheap electricity. If they had to produce with more expensive electricity and pay a fair wage their products might not be so cheap.

[Bob]

They'll just build more modern nuclear reactors.  Unless they go really green somehow.  They don't have any other way to produce enough power for themselves otherwise, do they?

[Bob]

https://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/18/nuclear.concerns/index.html

What the Westwind Saw?  What the Eastwind blows?... Radiation.

[Bob]

At least there's nothing to worry about the in the U.S.

https://www.theonion.com/articles/nuclear-energy-advocates-insist-us-reactors-comple,19740/

[Bob]

It's Japan.  Japan!

You do realize what's next, don't you?

Japan... An earthquake... a nuclear disaster...



https://tinyurl.com/4upovn3

[Bob]

It's Japan.  Japan!

You do realize what's next, don't you?

Japan... An earthquake... a nuclear disaster...



https://tinyurl.com/4upovn3

Ahem... Another aftershock today....   What do you think this is that washed up onshore?

https://www.break.com/index/strange-object-washed-up-on-japans-shore-2039431

[birba]

A giant booger from outerspace?

[Bob]

Some kind of a egg?