About the middle (silent) pedal

[littletune]

Well I have a small upright Kawai piano (well actually when I was looking on the internet I found that it's not really an upright piano but a console piano but ok). 
And my neighbours are not so very nice  so I have to play a lot with the middle pedal that makes the piano sound a lot quieter. And I was wondering about something. You can hold the middle pedal down and then push it to the left and it stays that way so you don't have to hold it down all the time... but when I do this it just makes the lower keys quieter but the higher keys still sound the same. So if I want all of the keys to be quieter I have to hold the middle pedal down all the time. And I was just wondering if that's a normal thing or is there something wrong with that? And if that's how it's supposed to be why is that... I mean is it because the lower keys make more noise and the higher keys less?  or something like that? Do the neighbours hear the lower keys more than the higher ones? I mean it doesn't really bother me to hold the pedal down all the time I was just wondering about it... if anyone maybe knows something about that... 

[pianowolfi]

Well I have a small upright Kawai piano (well actually when I was looking on the internet I found that it's not really an upright piano but a console piano but ok).  
And my neighbours are not so very nice   so I have to play a lot with the middle pedal that makes the piano sound a lot quieter. And I was wondering about something. You can hold the middle pedal down and then push it to the left and it stays that way so you don't have to hold it down all the time... but when I do this it just makes the lower keys quieter but the higher keys still sound the same. So if I want all of the keys to be quieter I have to hold the middle pedal down all the time. And I was just wondering if that's a normal thing or is there something wrong with that? And if that's how it's supposed to be why is that... I mean is it because the lower keys make more noise and the higher keys less?   or something like that? Do the neighbours hear the lower keys more than the higher ones? I mean it doesn't really bother me to hold the pedal down all the time I was just wondering about it... if anyone maybe knows something about that...  

No that just means this pedal isn't adjusted very well. Open the lid, there is a screw that allows you to adjust the position of that felt which goes down between the hammers and the strings.

[littletune]

Oh really? Thanks Wolfi! But we have to get it tuned soon anyway... maybe it would be better if I wait till then and ask if they could adjust that too  ... and ok well this is embarrassing but... do all pianos have a lid that you can open?  cause I really don't know where I could open it  Hmmm... well I'll see thanks! 

[ongaku_oniko]

lol I'm pretty sure all pianos have a lid you can open... for uprights it's usually on the top o.o

[littletune]

Oh ok thanks but do you just lift it up? or do you have to do it with a screwdriver or something? I'm asking cause I already tried just lifting it once and it didn't move...   

[pianowolfi]

Oh ok thanks but do you just lift it up? or do you have to do it with a screwdriver or something? I'm asking cause I already tried just lifting it once and it didn't move...    

Sometimes you have to unlock a little metal (or wooden) hook. Means you can lift it a bit and then you have to grip that hook inside and unlock it and then you can open it fully.

[richard black]

On many modern pianos, especially those made in the Far East, the top lid is held down by a spring clip so you need to pull quite hard to open it.

[littletune]

Thank you Wolfi and Richard Black!  it worked!!!!!!!!!   I opened the lid of my piano!!!! For the first time!!! Now I'm really excited about it!! Can I look inside? Can I touch something? Could I damage something? Can I clean it up or something? (I'm sure there must be some dust in there!) Could I tune it by myself??   

[oxy60]

After a lot of years playing piano, I'm wondering about these pedals you folks are discussing. You refer to the three pedals. Which one does what and have they changed function over the last 50 years? I have seldom touched the two pedals to the left because I learned from my very first lesson how to play both very loud and very soft.  My keyboard will accept a three pedal package or just a single sustain pedal which I now use. Maybe I'm missing something special?

[pianowolfi]

After a lot of years playing piano, I'm wondering about these pedals you folks are discussing. You refer to the three pedals. Which one does what and have they changed function over the last 50 years? I have seldom touched the two pedals to the left because I learned from my very first lesson how to play both very loud and very soft.  My keyboard will accept a three pedal package or just a single sustain pedal which I now use. Maybe I'm missing something special?

There is no such thing as "the three pedals" because they can have very different functions, depending of which piano they are attached to. Well in almost all of the cases the right pedal has the function you are used to but the two others can serve completely different purposes.

In this case we are talking only about a middle pedal that works as a soft pedal, which Littletune has to use frequently because of her crazy neighbours. If you press this sort of pedal it puts a strip of felt between the hammers and the strings, which softens the sound massively.
  

[littletune]

And in grand pianos the middle pedal is for something completely different right?
After only playing piano for a year I really don't know much about the pedals! And I have never used the left pedal either! Are there pieces where it says you have to use the left pedal (or the middle one), or you just use them if it sounds right? 

[pianowolfi]

And in grand pianos the middle pedal is for something completely different right?
After only playing piano for a year I really don't know much about the pedals! And I have never used the left pedal either! Are there pieces where it says you have to use the left pedal (or the middle one), or you just use them if it sounds right?  

*Una corda* is the traditional mark for the left pedal. Or *u.c.* Which means the hammer hits only "one string" (But on modern grands this is again different, as there are more strings per note in the treble and middle region of the piano). On an upright the left pedal reduces the distance from which the hammers hit the strings. "Una corda" on grands changes the whole character of the sound whereas on uprights it principally only reduces the volume. Though I'd strongly recommend to practice the use of this left pedal as well, even if you have "only" an upright piano. Ask your teacher, she will explain it to you in detail.

The middle pedal on grands, usually referred to as "sustain pedal" can keep single selected notes. It's an invention of Steinway and other piano makers have adopted it, but not all of them. Many grands have only two pedals, the so called "una corda" and the normal damper pedal, the right pedal.

[littletune]

Thank you Wolfi for explaining all this And I will ask my teacher about the left pedal too! 

[Bob]

I remember some silent pedals like that made the keys take a lot less effort to press down.  So using the silent pedal could make your fingers a little weaker.

[littletune]

Yes it's true Bob it's not the same as playing without the silent pedal... that's why I play about 15 to 30 minutes a day without the silent pedal! But I think it's still not as easy to press the keys down as on a digital piano... specially because my piano has keys that are very hard to press down. And I think that in a way I'm pressing the keys harder so I can even hear something, cause if I don't press enough (when playing with the silent pedal) it doesn't even make a sound 

[oxy60]

And big thank you from over here as well. This is certainly a piano forum at its best!

[keys60]

Not all pianos have that. I tuned a Petrof vertical not to long ago that had the same problem. Its a fabric mat on a frame attached to a linkage to the pedal. When you depress the pedal, the fabric covers the strings and mutes them. You lock it in place when you slide the pedal to the left. Anyway, the Petrof, the fabric got folded up on the treble side and didn't cover the strings.
I think these features are actually a PIA and useless. I prefer the fake sustenuto in an upright that just movest the action closer to the strings so there is less hammer blow. Makes the action faster too which I find kind of fun. In a Grand, it shifts the action to the left so the hammer misses on string per note on the bi and trichords and hits off center on the single bass strings. That's the real deal.

[silverwoodpianos]

Regarding the  OP’s piano, the celeste, or practice pedal bar is most likely bent slightly on the right side, as the left side is working fine……

The middle pedal on a grand is called a sostenuto.

Jean Louis Boisselot invented the sostenuto pedal 1844 and this invention was improved by Steinway in 1874.

On some grands( Stuart & Sons, Fazioli) there is a 4th pedal that moves the hammer set in a grand action closer to the string set, much like the soft pedal of an upright.

Sometimes in uprights and grand’s the middle pedal opens the bass damper set as a whole section while leaving the dampers applied to the tenor/treble.

In some high-end uprights the middle pedal is a sostenuto.

[oxy60]

After posting my thank you above I realized I owe another thank you for solving another mystery.

A friend of mine has purchased an acoustic piano for his son, who is the same age and attending a similar music school like Littletune's. I advised him against the purchase because his family lives in a condo in a very congested town/street. He kept assuring me everything would be OK because the piano had a silent mode. I was baffled. He wrote me at Christmas that he bought the piano anyway.

Until this thread I just thought his dealer was making something up to get the sale!



 

[keys60]

Thanks Dan. Got my soft shift and sostenuto mixed up.
Regardless of that, I've had to untangle that darned practice mute in the Petrof. Linkage gets hung up or the fabric isn't layiing nice.

[ahnold]

That pedal never seem to work properly.

/John https://www.pianorgel.se/